William Henry Johnson Royal Field Artillery - understanding Service Records and how to find further information.

[Alpineted]

I am asking for help and advice regarding the service records of my great uncle William Henry Johnson ('uncle Bill'). 
He was born on 5th July 1892 ( his birth name is registered incorrectly as George William). He lived in the Everton district of Liverpool and married Sarah Helen McCarthy on 1st September 1914. He had a daughter Jessie, born 14th November 1914 and died 24th June 1915. 

His Army records show his birth as 1890 (and perhaps 1891) - though as stated above his actual birth was 1892 - during my experience in my family research I have found discrepancies in birth dates quite common. 
William Henry attested on 17th May 1915 and address shown as 88 Howe Street, Everton, Liverpool - (his brother George born in 1890 and who served with King's own Liverpool Regiment was killed on 10th May 1915 in France). 

 

I have seen his service record (WO363), but cannot find any other documentation details such as medal card, pension etc. Any and all advice welcome.

I have seen the war diaries for D/170 Brigade in April 1918, when he was wounded by gas shell, more of that later. 

 

Looking at his service record microfilm number 0012, Statement of Services, I can read some of it, but not all - it looks to me as if uncle Bill was initially attested and posted to 171st Brigade as a Driver immediately. 

I cannot 'make out' the other postings and dates etc, perhaps others may be able to assist?  though I do know that at some stage he was assigned to 170th Brigade and that his rank was then Gunner.

I would really like to find out the timeline for uncle Bill's service and to understand where he served and when, from initial posting to discharge.  Was it usual to move Brigades and roles ? (ie 171 Brigade to 170 Brigade, Driver and Gunner). 

I would particularly like to know more about William Henry's injury and convalescence. He was wounded 'gas shell severe' on 21st April 1918, Some information I have read is from RFA D/170 Brigade War diaries. TNA ref WO95/2350/9, pages 26 of 121, 29 of 121 and 59 of 121. 
 I would like to  be able at attach the 3 pages out of the 121 page War diaries for members to view and then ask my questions about uncle Bill,  I will do this if it is within the rules and guidelines of the forum or should I quote extracts instead?
I am new to the forum and want to make sure I do the right thing.

He is also shown on the War Office Casualty List June 18th 1918 - 'Johnson 24332 Dvr. W.H. (Everton). 

Thank you for your help. 

 

Lin

 

 

[Michelle Young]

His medal index card show he was entitled to the war and victory medals. 
You can post images as long as you acknowledge the source, and do not post more than 5% of the complete documents. 3 pages out of 121 will  be ok. 

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Alpineted said:

though I do know that at some stage he was assigned to 170th Brigade

That posting was 22/5/16 to D/170 Bde as I read it in his service record.

This date coincides with a reorganisation of RFA Brigades detailed in the LongLongTrail here:

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-royal-artillery-in-the-first-world-war/batteries-and-brigades-of-the-royal-field-artillery/clxv-clxix-clxx-and-clxxi-howitzer-brigades-of-the-royal-field-artillery/

"On 22 May 1916 D Battery left and joined 171 Brigade as its C Battery. It was replaced by the arrival of C (Howitzer) Battery from 171 Brigade, which was then renamed as D (Howitzer) Battery"

1 hour ago, Alpineted said:

He was wounded 'gas shell severe' on 21st April 1918,

I can see the date 23/4/18 admitted Rouen but not 21/3 ?

Charlie

Edited 1 May by charlie962
Date correction gassed

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, Alpineted said:

initially attested and posted to 171st Brigade as a Driver immediately

Agreed

1 hour ago, Alpineted said:

cannot 'make out' the other postings

The only other postings I could see on his record (other than that in my previous post) was to Base 19/6/18 then back to D/170 on 4/8/18, remaing with them till 1919. Each time he is 'driver'.

I would have thought he would have been posted to Base when he was evacuated gassed in March (edit I mean April) 1918 but no mention in record.(see later post)

1 hour ago, Alpineted said:

He is also shown on the War Office Casualty List June 18th 1918 - 'Johnson 24332 Dvr. W.H. (Everton).

That, if it is for his March* gassing, is late but may have been a catch-up entitling him to a wound stripe. 

*Edit Correction I mean his April gassing.

Edited 1 May by charlie962

[Alpineted]

54 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

His medal index card show he was entitled to the war and victory medals. 
You can post images as long as you acknowledge the source, and do not post more than 5% of the complete documents. 3 pages out of 121 will  be ok. 

Hi Michelle,

Thank you - I will do that. 

Would it be possible to send me a link for his medal index card please. I am a member of FMP, Ancestry, MyHeritage, TNA and Forces War Records - I am  ok at searching for civilian records, but not much luck with military. 

Thanks again, I appreciate your help.

[Alpineted]

27 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

That posting was 22/5/16 to D/170 Bde as I read it in his service record.

This date coincides with a reorganisation of RFA Brigades detailed in the LongLongTrail here:

Thank you Charlie, I will have a good read of that tomorrow. 

[Alpineted]

29 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

I can see the date 23/3/18 admitted Rouen but not 21/3, although such delay not improbable ?

Charlie

He was wounded on 21st April 1918, I think he was initially admitted to 12 St Louis USA hospital (see microfilm no. 0017 Inside sheet in Sevice record) and then moved elsewhere, my questions revolve around from  the day when he was wounded through to his discharge. I will upload the War Diary pages (mentioned earlier) tomorrow morning. Thank you Charlie 

[charlie962]

Correcting my refs to March gassing to read April (sorry about that) I can make a better comment:

He was gassed and evacuated to No 12 (StLouis USA) General Hospital at Rouen on 23rd April 1918.

He was transferred to no 11 Convalescent Depot (Buchy) from no 2 Convalescent depot 27/4/18.

He rejoined his battery in Aug 1918 as mentioned in my previous post.

Hope that makes more sense.

Charlie

Edited 1 May by charlie962

[Alpineted]

1 minute ago, charlie962 said:

Correcting my refs to March gassing to read April (sorry about that) I can make a better comment:

He was gassed and evacuated to No 12 (StLouis USA) General Hospital at Rouen.

He was transferred to no 11 Convalescent Depot (Buchy) from no 2 Convalescent depot 27/4/18.

He rejoined his battery in Aug 1918 as mentioned in my previous post.

Hope that makes more sense.

Charlie

Thanks Charlie. Is there anywhere I can learn more about 11 Convalescent Depot (Buchy)? 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Lin

[charlie962]

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/the-evacuation-chain-for-wounded-and-sick-soldiers/convalescent-depots-in-france/

Which will also tell you that No2 Convalescent Depot was at Rouen.

There are references in the LongLongTrail to both depots having war diaries.

Edited 1 May by charlie962

[charlie962]

No 2 conv depot war diary:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/976defbdfc69410da9060a27d7eaf65c

No 11 conv depot war diary:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4187738d9d3d4e9ab35814021a847b81

[Michelle Young]

As requested  ©️ Ancestry.  Reverse of card is blank. I just searched surname and number. Less is more I find. Don’t be misled ny the 141B , that’s just a reference to the medal rolls. 

 

[charlie962]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60779/images/43849_2350_0-00996?treeid=&personid=&queryId=3de089dc-d1da-465f-8693-b94dcbcd2767&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qgl10&_phstart=successSource&pId=705347

The above page of the war diary, which I presume you have seen, is the brigade casualty listing for April 1918 and has Johnson with two others gassed that day. There would have been evacuation to Field Hospital then Casualty Clearing Station followed by Ambulance Train to Rouen and hospital where he was admitted two days later. That is normal evacuation timescale.

Was it just coincidence that D/170 was itself carrying out a gas shoot that day and it was 3 men of that battery gassed that day? War Diary doesn't clarify!

Edited 2 May by charlie962

[Alpineted]

14 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

As requested  ©️ Ancestry.  Reverse of card is blank. I just searched surname and number. Less is more I find. Don’t be misled ny the 141B , that’s just a reference to the medal rolls. 

 

Thank you Michelle - I must remember 'less is more' for my future searching! 

Lin

[Alpineted]

23 hours ago, charlie962 said:

He was gassed and evacuated to No 12 (StLouis USA) General Hospital at Rouen on 23rd April 1918.

He was transferred to no 11 Convalescent Depot (Buchy) from no 2 Convalescent depot 27/4/18.

He rejoined his battery in Aug 1918 as mentioned in my previous post.

 

I was hoping to attach 3 pages from the 170th Brigade RFA war diaries The National Archive reference WO95/2350/9. I have downloaded the 121 page document, unfortunately I have tried and failed to copy and paste the 3 pages I would like to share with you. So, I will give details of page numbers and content that is relevant to my uncle Bill:

Page 26 of 121 War diary -  21st April 1918 Extract from the last 3 lines for that day - 'Gusts of fire by all ???????? at various times on enemy posts. D/170 carried out Gas Shoot by order of S.G. 688/27'
This is the day that William Henry was wounded - order S.G. 688/27 is found on page 59 pf 121 pages of War Diary. There is a handwritten note at the bottom of this page, 'Advised by 32 ?? at 4.25am to cancel gas shoot. Wind changed E to W.
I hope that a forum member might be able to help me understand what happened that night, reading the comment shown on order S.G 688/27, I wonder if the gas shell wound was caused by D/170 Brigade's own shells? - this is particularly poignant to me because uncle Bill's older brother George was killed by a tragic accident on 10th May 1915 in France. George served with King's Liverpool regiment 4th Battalion, his was born in Liverpool in 1890 and his service number was 8103. 
William was admitted to 12/ St Louis USA General hospital in Rouen on 23rd April. I believe that Rouen is about 30km from Buchy.  What will have determined him being admitted to the hospital , rather than say a nearby Convalescent depot?

Page 29 of 121 shows the casualties for April - W H Johnson L/24332 is listed as Shell Gas wounded. His rank is shown as Gunner, though elsewhere within his records (and on the War Office Casualty list June 18th 1918, his rank is shown as Driver). His service number is sometimes shown as 24332 and also L/24332, any ideas what the prefix L means?

 

I also have questions regarding William's Henry 'timeline from wounding to discharge' - I am confused about a couple of things (looking through his service record) and I have made notes about these. I think I have asked enough questions for one day, so I will post them tomorrow.

Thanks to all members for your help - it is much appreciated. 

Lin

 

[charlie962]

7 hours ago, Alpineted said:

William was admitted to 12/ St Louis USA General hospital in Rouen on 23rd April. I believe that Rouen is about 30km from Buchy.  What will have determined him being admitted to the hospital , rather than say a nearby Convalescent depot?

He will have gone to Hospital first, for treatment and decision on further evacuation to England (which is what happened to a comrade) or convalescence in France. Presumably it was considered he would recover reasonably quickly with treatment in France. He was transferred shortly afterwards to No 2 Convalescent depot which is at Rouen then to no11 at Buchy.

[charlie962]

8 hours ago, Alpineted said:

Gusts of fire by all ????????

Bursts of fire by all batteries...

[charlie962]

17 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Was it just coincidence that D/170 was itself carrying out a gas shoot that day and it was 3 men of that battery gassed that day? War Diary doesn't clarify!

 

8 hours ago, Alpineted said:

This is the day that William Henry was wounded - order S.G. 688/27 is found on page 59 pf 121 pages of War Diary. There is a handwritten note at the bottom of this page, 'Advised by 32 ?? at 4.25am to cancel gas shoot. Wind changed E to W.
I hope that a forum member might be able to help me understand what happened that night, reading the comment shown on order S.G 688/27, I wonder if the gas shell wound was caused by D/170 Brigade's own shells? -

We pose the same question. An east wind changing to a west wind would not at first seem unfavourable. But if the comment actually reads ..changed 'to blowing from' east to west ..then that would be a major problem!

8 hours ago, Alpineted said:

'Advised by 32 ??

I think that reads 32 DA as in 32ndDivisional Artillery

[charlie962]

The timing of the gas shoot cancellation looks to be well after it had commenced.

[charlie962]

The above is an extract of the war diary casualty list of 170Bde RFA for April 1918. Courtesy Ancestry and National Archives.

Rose and Anderson have some service papers that may throw light? Or even perhaps a newspaper article ?

[charlie962]

12 hours ago, Alpineted said:

any ideas what the prefix L means?

 

Longlongtrail will answer this, or searching on this forum under artillery local enlistment. Heres a typical reply by eg headgardener some years back:

The 'L' prefix relates (in the case of RFA men) to a 'local' enlistment in one of the many newly formed artillery brigades in the early months of the war (think of them being a bit like 'pals' battalions).

[Alpineted]

4 hours ago, charlie962 said:

The timing of the gas shoot cancellation looks to be well after it had commenced.

 

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

The above is an extract of the war diary casualty list of 170Bde RFA for April 1918. Courtesy Ancestry and National Archives.

Rose and Anderson have some service papers that may throw light? Or even perhaps a newspaper article ?

Thanks Charlie, I hadn't thought of that. I will check them tonight. 

Thank you

 

Lin

[Alpineted]

5 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Bursts of fire by all batteries...

 👍 thank you

[Alpineted]

8 hours ago, charlie962 said:

He will have gone to Hospital first, for treatment and decision on further evacuation to England (which is what happened to a comrade) or convalescence in France. Presumably it was considered he would recover reasonably quickly with treatment in France. He was transferred shortly afterwards to No 2 Convalescent depot which is at Rouen then to no11 at Buchy.

Thanks for this Charlie.

I attach 2 pages from William Henry Johnson WO 363 records - courtesy of Find My Past.

1. Microfilm 0017 Inside sheet B104-
     I have a few questions to help me understand the timeline regarding his injuries:

• I note Registry number 115/66155, does this relate to his injury and also is this information available to view?
• H.A. 22454 presumably means Hospital Admission number - I wonder if these records are available?
• Another Registry number is shown on Inside sheet - same question as above two bullet points
• Below the entry about Adm 11 Con Dep Buchy x 2 27/4 ... I can't read all that is written there (help please), but I can read Coombe  Lodge, I think I can read 31/1/19. This raises the question, did uncle Bill transfer to Coombe Lodge as either as a result of Gas Shell Wound (severe), or was he injured at another time as well. 
   

I also attach microfilm number 0021 - Army Form Z.11... This is his Protection Certificate and Certificate of Identity, which is stamped 'Sick and Wounded' . This is date stamped 16th February 1919 by Dispersal Hospital Colchester.
Pay Office details are shown on form, does this mean he was in a receipt of  a Pension - I have not been able to find anything. 

I will also be attaching (separately) William Henry's Military Sheet - microfilm number 0032, I I would like some clarification. 

Thanks to all for your help. 

 

[Alpineted]

10 hours ago, charlie962 said:

The timing of the gas shoot cancellation looks to be well after it had commenced.

Yes, I agree - I wonder how that happened?