Army Service Corps Rank and regimental numbers

[C Coy 2 Royal Irish Rifles]

Hi All, 

Need some help in identifying the context of the RANK : R. RIDER in the Army Service Corps, later changed officially to Private.

This is a relative of mine who served and survived the great war.  By all accounts pre war he was a horseman groom/trainer and subsequently went back to that work post war in the Curragh Co Kildare, His sons were killed in the Battle of the Somme - 1/7/16 and 21/3/18. RIR and RDF respectively.

 

Can I also ask for unusual Regimental numbers structure - R4/066642? Is this unique to the ASC?

Edited 30 April by C Coy 2 Royal Irish Rifles

[Gardenerbill]

All regiments and corps at the time of the Great War had their own set of unique numbers. With regard to the Army Service Corps the R in the prefix R4 relates to the ASC Remounts service and the 4 is loosely connected to Kitchener's 4th volunteer Army. 

[C Coy 2 Royal Irish Rifles]

@Gardenerbill thank you for your reply - could it have been the case that he was in a Cavalry unit up to his service in the ASC, reason I say this he son was formerly 5th Lancers and then was transferred to 1 R Dub Fusiliers, there is some folklore in the family of them being separated. His medal index card  states ASC only. Were remounts generally transferred or fresh entries with a given trade?

[Jim Strawbridge]

R. Rider translates as Rough Rider. Generally considered an American expression it was used for someone who broke horses. Discontinued when the Army tried to regularise these trades into a simpler form.

[C Coy 2 Royal Irish Rifles]

@Jim Strawbridge thanks Jim, I did think it could be related then had doubts due to it being a very US term. 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Any possibility of this being of relevance:

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-yeomanry-regiments-of-1914-1918/city-of-london-yeomanry-rough-riders/

[kenf48]

The service record of R4/066622 John Lang has survived.  A groom from Co. Fermanagh he enlisted on the 10th March 1915 and was posted to France on the 28th April 1915.  Attached to 28 Remount Squadron 4 Base Remount Depot Boulogne.

I bow to superior knowledge as to the designation R.Rider but it is struck through because Private (Pte) was his rank and that is what is inscribed on his medal(s). It appears the checking officer has corrected the entry to reflect this.

1 hour ago, C Coy 2 Royal Irish Rifles said:

Were remounts generally transferred or fresh entries with a given trade?

It seems likely he and his comrades responded to this, or similar, recruiting  advertisements in the Irish Newspapers (by February 1915 the Army had purchased over 50,000 horses from Ireland).

This example from the Drogheda Independent Saturday March 13 1915.(Courtesy of BNA on FMP)

You will note 'Rough Riders' are specifically listed and their skill attracted an enhanced rate of pay compared to the one shilling a day of the PBI.

Whether or not your man had previous military service in the cavalry prior to August 1914 is another question but he appears to have enlisted in the ASC as above in March 1915.

 

[C Coy 2 Royal Irish Rifles]

@kenf48 Thank you so much for this valuable information and insight. Excellent!

[stevenbecker]

I seen the term Rough rider used a lot in the Cavalry (ALH), but never seen it as a rank, only as a trade or job.

While not used much in regular units even ALH it was mostly used in the Remounts as shown above.

as examples

LLOYD    John    98    Pte    1 Remts    1 Sqn att Rough Riders 2-16 to FRS Ludd 9-18 to L/Cpl 11-18 to FRS Jaffa 12-18 (Boer War 3 VIB (442)

HINCKS    George Henry    137    Pte    6 LHR    A Sqn D Troop (328) att ARU 2-15 remain Egypt to Rough rider ARU 2-16 to CTU 9-16 to 1Co/1Bn ICC 10-16 to hosp (rheum & myalgia) 1-17 rtn 4-17 to 14 LHR 7-18 to hosp (dysentry) 10-18 RTA 1914 leave

KENNEDY    Keith    338    Tpt/Sgt    6 LHR    RHQ (7) deserted in Colombo 14-1-15 Ex B Troop C Sqn/6 LHR DNE (Rough Rider ASC Remts CMF 5 years)

LAWLER    Oscar Michael    442    Pte    03 LHR    C Sqn to A/Sgt Remts remain Egypt to rough rider Imperial Remt depot 2-16 to T/Cpl CSqn/1 LHTR 9-16 to ER T/Sgt LCo/CTC 12-16 to HCo/CTC no date? revert to Pte to hosp (fever & influ) 2-17 to No1 CTC depot 5-17 to LCo/CTC 5-17 to 1 LHTR 6-17 FGCM 27-6-17 threating lauguage sentenced 90 days HL computed to 90 days FP2 rtn C Sqn? 11-17 reported killed with Lt McBride during attack on Bald Hill buried at Jewish Cemetery at Ayan Kara by chaplain Boarman reburied Ramleh War Cemetery Palestine

Hope that helps to explan the use of the word

[FROGSMILE]

11 hours ago, kenf48 said:

because Private (Pte) was his rank and that is what is inscribed on his medal(s).

You’re absolutely right of course Ken.  His rank was Private and his appointment Rough Rider, just as another man might be a Private and appointed e.g. Wheeler, or Collar Maker.  The appointment indicated his special qualification, which usually attracted enhanced (trade) pay.  The clerk had incorrectly filled in the form as if it was his rank.

Edited 30 April by FROGSMILE