Fred Spencer Bamford 4th and 7th Dragoon Guards

[David David]

Hi Tom, did you make any more progress on this? I’m looking for specific information about my grandfather Fred Spencer Bamford who was a farrier in the 4th / 7th Dragoon Guards. He was from Rochdale.

[TomP]

Hi @David David

I'm afraid not no, I’m still non the wiser on his wartime service. I have a feeling it will always allude me!  

[David David]

I think we will be the same. It’s so frustrating that the service records were destroyed.

[PRC]

On 26/04/2024 at 10:40, David David said:

I’m looking for specific information about my grandfather Fred Spencer Bamford who was a farrier in the 4th / 7th Dragoon Guards. He was from Rochdale.

I assume he was the Fred Spencer Bamford whose birth was registered in the Rochdale District in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1888 and on the 1911 Census of England & Wales as a 22 year old unmarried Grocers Assistant, born Rochdale living with his parents Samuel & Annie at 16 Midhurst Street, Rochdale.

Did he marry during the period he might have been serving? I can see a marriage in the Huddersfield District in 1917 to a Selena Wood, but that doesn't appear to tien in with the information on the 1921 Census of England & Wales - and as a non-subscriber I cam only see the absolute bare mimimum of information so the document itself may makes things clearer. It's just if he was serving at the time of the marriage then that would be reflected in the grooms occupation. It might say say "A soldier" but sometimes can be quite detailed, and also give his army address as abode prior to marriage. Similarly if any children of the union were born during the period when he might have been serving - fathers occupation may give more clues.

There is a potential medal index card for a D/16832 Private Fred S. Bamford, 7th Dragoons, subsequently GS/21646. Unfortunately no surviving service records as far as I can tell, and the medal roll, which would often show the full name, also just has "S" as his middle name.That soldier qualified for the Victory Medal and British War Medal, so didn't serve in a Theatre of War until some point after 1915 and before the Armistice.

If it’s any help to either yourself or  @TomP

D/16865 & GS/21710 Pinkus Koch has surviving service records according to FindMyPast although they index him as born c1899 Stepney, Middlesex and date them to 1919. Familysearch add they are in the unburnt series records (WO364) (and so Ancestry probably call them pension records). Familysearch have him in the 7th Dragoon Guards and records commencing in 1916. He also has a MiC and qualifies for the Victory Medal and British War Medal.

D/16875 Ernest Overton died on the 17th November 1918 serving with the 4th Dragoon Guards (Royal Irish) and is buried in Lille Southern Cemetery. No obvious surviving service records.

D/16884 Norman Morris died on the 21st March 1918 serving with the 4th Dragoon Guards (Royal Irish). It looks like his body was recovered from a mass grave in July 1919 of soldiers killed in action on that day, so possibly buried by the Germans or PoW’s working under their orders as there was one cross listing the names where known. No obvious surviving service records.

Obviously you shouldn't draw too much from one set of service records but it may help you make a start on understanding your relatives service history.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[Allan1892]

16 hours ago, PRC said:

but that doesn't appear to tien in with the information on the 1921 Census of England & Wales - and as a non-subscriber I cam only see the absolute bare mimimum of information so the document itself may makes things clearer.

Family living at 71 Greenbank Road, Rochdale -- Fred shown as being unmarried. (image courtesy of Find My Past)

[Allan1892]

There is a civil marriage registration for a Fred S Bamford to a Nellie Chadwick -- Rochdale District, Qtr 2, 1921,  Volume 8E, Page 144

[Allan1892]

1939 Register shows --

88 Dewhirst Road, Rochdale

Fred S Bamford; dob 1/10/1888; occupation Commercial Traveller Biscuits

Nellie Bamford; dob 20/3/1897

Eric Bamford; dob 26/10/1922; occupation Sales Clerk Asbestos Works

Raymond C Bamford; dob 10/11/1927; At School

[PRC]

8 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

Family living at 71 Greenbank Road, Rochdale -- Fred shown as being unmarried.

Thanks Allen - so he was working for the Co-operative Society in Rochdale as a Grocery Branch Manager in June 1921. The April 1911 Census had him as a Grocers Assistant. Fingers crossed that was with the same employer as most Co-operative Societys I've come across were proud of their contribution in the war, (although I believe also supportive of conscientious objectors), and maintained rolls of honour of those who served, as well as being one of the small band of employers who went to extra lengths to take back their employees when the war was done with them.

Rochdale was the pioneer co-operative society in this country, and so is home to a small "Pioneers Museum". I see from the local press they put on a Great War related exhibition of it's impact on society members. https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/96617/ww1-exhibition-launched-at-the-pioneers-museum

See also
https://www.co-operativeheritage.coop/plan-your-visit
https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/search/locations/c0e3eaca-cba5-3c18-8d3d-3fde15994bf8

Cheers,
Peter

[Allan1892]

Marriage certificate courtesy of Ancestry

[kenf48]

Topic originally posted in:-

Now split to avoid confusion with two different soldiers on one thread