Pte Claude Ernest Pratt

[mancpal]

I’m asking for assistance with the above soldier. I have his mic and CWGC details, I’ve also downloaded the war diary for the period around his demise (a good one with reasonable detail). The questions I have are as follows. 
1) Given his date of death at Mendinghem I read the diary for the preceding days. I currently suspect he was one of 14 casualties from the previous day (2 of which were noted as having died in hospital). Could anybody say how the wounded at Messine Ridge would have been  conveyed to Mendinghem and what sort of distance is it? Also, at what point (distance) would a casualty first be moved by some form of wheeled transport as opposed to a stretcher or merely hobbling?
2)Does anybody have a trench map showing the area around Cavan trench, Bilge trench , Threadneedle St and Irish Farm, preferably around mid 1917? I’d dearly love to be able to master Trenchmapper but thus far it’s beyond me. 
3.) Claude, according to his mic served in F&F firstly with the Bedfordshires (4061) followed by the RSR (G/14855). I’m struggling to find if his service record survived to see if he was transferred following previous injury or perhaps arrived with the former and was transferred at an IBD prior to going to  the front? 

As always I am hampered by paywall sites so would be grateful of any assistance to pass on to Claudes great niece. 
Thanks in anticipation,

Simon

[jay dubaya]

The Medal Rolls show a number of men transferred from 5th Bn Bedfordshire’s to 13th Bn Sussex (several on the same page as Claude) which suggests a compulsory transfer. Can’t see anything regarding a surviving service file for him.

[mancpal]

JD,

thanks for the super quick reply. Is there a date for the transfer? I wonder where the transfer occurred (IBD or further forward?).  
What I’m getting at is will I need to download the appropriate Beds diary for his earlier service? If he transferred at an IBD then am I correct that there wouldn’t be much to read in the Beds W.D. ?

Simon

[chaz]

his pension card states wounds, so suspect serious and not killed.  9/6/17.

 

regarding distance, if you take cemetery to cemetery , today its around 25kms , but thats on todays main roads, I suspect he would have been taken a longer route via an aid station, then possibly no46 CCS at mendinghem although according to the link, then from the LLT

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/locations-of-british-casualty-clearing-stations/

 

 

 

 

 

no names given, 

 

[mancpal]

Thanks Chaz.

Ive had a forum supplied techno glitch this afternoon which admin solved promptly, the only thing is my last post hasn’t reappeared. 
His date of death is recorded as 9/6/17 (CWGC).
Having read the relevant war diary I suspect his injury occurred on the 8/6 when there were 14 casualties (2 of which are reported as died in hospital according to the WD). Obviously he could have been injured the day before or perhaps even earlier, reaching Mendinghem was one thing, if his condition declined to the point of being unable to be moved further along the evacuation chain then he could have been there longer, a matter of awaiting death I suppose. 
On the subject of the missing post, I asked how far back (realise it must have varied massively) would a casualty first come across any form of wheeled transport? By this I mean anything from a wheeled stretcher, handcart, horse drawn etc. I’d imagine the Army would have had a plan for these circumstances but wonder how effective it would be in the field and what alternatives, if any, there were.  
You mention Claudes pension card, I can’t access pension cards (or anything with a fee attached!) and I wonder if there are details of who it was paid to or any other details to be honest. 
I’m attempting to compile a little more detail about my friends families WW1 past as it appears her late mother researched the family to a good degree though not always in individual depth.

Simon

[WhiteStarLine]

11 hours ago, mancpal said:

Cavan trench, Bilge trench , Threadneedle St and Irish Farm, preferably around mid 1917

Hi Simon,

Irish Farm is on the LHS and a bit east is Threadneedle Street.  Continue east to Cavan Trench and Bilge Trench.

St Julien Sheet 28 NW2 1:10,000 Edition: 5A 1/04/1917
Secret Edition German Trenches corrected to April 1, 1917, British Corrected to April 1, 1917. Printed 1/04/1917
Id: m_010736

[chaz]

Mrs E L Pratt, 21 Peach Street, Luton, Beds.   Ellen L Pratt, his mother age 51.    paid 5/- for life. father was James.  He had 6 sisters aand 2 brothers in 1911 census.

from Ancestry/Fold3

there is a sepia picture of him on findagrave you can see.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/12696500/claud-ernest-pratt

[WhiteStarLine]

14 hours ago, mancpal said:

Also, at what point (distance) would a casualty first be moved by some form of wheeled transport as opposed to a stretcher or merely hobbling?

Simon, there is a very comprehensive thread on this dealing with Maple Copse.  It details in great order how they were stretchered / wheeled / motorised / entrained and the exact distances / locations.  It will give you an idea of the evacuation chain and also have suggestions for the various medical unit war diary that should have these details.

 

[mancpal]

Thanks for both the replies. I’ll pass the information on which I’m sure we be gladly received.

Simon

[mancpal]

I note on the map there is a Pratt trench between Bilge and Cavan. How odd that he should receive fatal wounds so close a trench bearing his name. Had the map been dated after his wounding I’d have wondered if it been named in his memory.

Simon

 

[chaz]

outside guess at trench being named after Major General Douglas Henry Pratt CB, DSO, MC (7 October 1892 – 14 May 1958)

[mancpal]

Chaz,

a far better guess than I could my muster.

Simon