7th Border Regiment - 1st Battle of Passchendaele, 12 October 1917

[Ivor Anderson]

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Passchendaele

"The 51st Brigade of the 17th (Northern) Division was to advance for 1,600 yd (1,500 m) astride the Ypres–Staden railway, to meet the left flank of the 4th Division north of Poelcappelle and the right flank of the Guards Division, 400 yd (370 m) north of the railway. Beyond the railway, the advance of the 51st Brigade veered slightly south, away from a German strongpoint which caused many casualties and lost touch with the Guards Division. South of the embankment, astride the Broombeek and Watervlietbeek streams, several German farm strongpoints, pillboxes and shell-hole positions were overrun by the infantry, who were able to keep well up to the very-slow-moving barrage. The brigade reached its first objective by 8:00 a.m., despite a number of German reinforcements arriving through the British artillery barrages. The final objective was reached at 11:00 a.m. and on the right a defensive flank was thrown back from Memling Farm at the final objective, to link with the 4th Division. By noon the advance was complete, 218 German prisoners had been taken and no German counter-attack followed, resistance being limited to a small amount of rifle fire." 

War diary of 7th Border Regiment re 12 Oct 1917 (source TNA):

[Ivor Anderson]

Trench map extract showing the location of TAUBE Farm & SENEGAL Farm, as mentioned in the WD - source: https://maps.nls.uk/view/101464870

Edited 25 April , 2024 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

The LG of 14 Jan 1918 lists MM awards for October 1917: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30476/supplement/834

I think those awarded to men of the 7th Border Regt are for this action on 12 October 1917. The schedule no. range in that LG is 118,000 to 134,200.

Schedule no. - all ref. 68/121/368

119404    Sjt William Sowerby 260324

119405    Sjt Henry Sharpe 14909

119406    Pte. Bernard Binks 10768

119407    Pte. Charles William Lowe 19828   Service Record on Ancestry

119408    Cpl. Albert Routledge 16011

119409    Pte. George Tait 16224

119410   Pte. Joseph Jackson 16117

119411   Pte. Thomas Graham 23558

119412   Pte. George Edward Cutler 27510

Edited 25 April , 2024 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

Pte. George Edward Cutler 27510 was from the Forest Gate area of NE London.

He was born in January 1897 and was a 14 year old messenger boy living at 96 Boleyn Road in 1911.

He entered the Gallipoli war theatre attached from the 6th Essex Regt. (1915 star roll) on 24 July 1915.

He was in the Military Foot Police and transferred to the 7th Border Regt. around May 1916 (MIC Ancestry):

I cannot find his BWM & VM roll?

Edited 25 April , 2024 by Ivor Anderson

[RussT]

1 hour ago, Ivor Anderson said:

He was in the Military Foot Police and transferred to the 7th Border Regt. around May 1916 (MIC Ancestry):

I cannot find his BWM & VM roll?

There are a couple of clues on the MIC that tell you it was the other way round.

1) There are the numbers 1, 2 and 3 in blue text next to his units. This is the order of units in which he served - with the MFP as "3" i.e. last after the Border Rgt - ("2")

2) You can see that the Medal Roll references are prefixed MFP - which means he is on the MFP Medal Rolls. He is on those MFP Rolls because he served with the MFP last. Whether you can find those Rolls is a different matter 

Regards

Russ

[RussT]

I can find his VM/BWM Roll on FMP but not (yet) on Ancestry

Russ

Image courtesy FMP

[RussT]

Here is his VM/BWM Roll on Ancestry ................. (under the name Cutter)

Ancestry.co.uk - UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920

[Ivor Anderson]

19 minutes ago, RussT said:

Here is his VM/BWM Roll on Ancestry

 That's great Russ. Many thanks. I looked long & hard but could not find it. So, he served with the military foot police last. Star & war medal rolls off Ancestry:

He entered Gallipoli 24 July 1915 with 6th Essex (MIC) - "21 July 1915 : sailed from Devonport for Gallipoli, going via Lemnos. Landed at Suvla bay 12 August 1915. 4 December 1915 : evacuated from Gallipoli and moved to Mudros, going on to Alexandria 17 December 1915."

The 7th Border Regt. were in France from July 1915 https://wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=471

Edited 25 April , 2024 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

George Cronin 27512 has a surviving service record: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/354381:1219?tid=&pid=&queryId=8f82368d-1047-4d6f-bd17-86701ea1caed&_phsrc=qzF17106&_phstart=successSource

 

Thomas Cook 27508 was also posted to the 7th Border R. from the 6th Essex on 25 Sept 1916: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/390332:1219?tid=&pid=&queryId=6b43be9f-a139-49c3-bcea-92a844ce624d&_phsrc=qzF17136&_phstart=successSource

Edited 26 April , 2024 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

5/10 7th Border men who died in October 1917 died on the 12th October and are listed on the Tyne Cot Memorial to the missing:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/search-results/?Surname=&Forename=&Initials=&ServiceNum=&Regiment=border+regiment&Unit=7thh&DateDeathFromDay=1&DateDeathFromMonth=October&DateDeathFromYear=1917&DateDeathToDay=1&DateDeathToMonth=November&DateDeathToYear=1917&DateOfDeath=&CountryCommemoratedIn=null&Cemetery=&Rank=&SecondaryRegiment=&SecondaryUnit=&AgeOfDeath=0&Honours=null&AdditionalInfo=

[Ivor Anderson]

George Edward Cutler appears to have died in the South Glamorgan district in Q1 1976 aged 79 (DoB given as 22 Jan 1897).

In 1939 he was married and living at 2 Sneyd Street, Cardiff (DoB given as 22 Jan 1897), occ. 'newspaper salesman supervisor'.

His wife Katie DoB 29 Dec 1896. She may be Katie E Fletcher, who married a George E Cutler in Merthyr Tydfil in Q2 1930: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/50913954:8753?tid=&pid=&queryId=46c2d5bb-4ec3-4c55-980a-b978fdf4e9d1&_phsrc=qzF17140&_phstart=successSource

They were living at 69 Plasturton Avenue, Cardiff in 1949:  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/50913954:8753?tid=&pid=&queryId=46c2d5bb-4ec3-4c55-980a-b978fdf4e9d1&_phsrc=qzF17140&_phstart=successSource

 

Edited 26 April , 2024 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

Looking at other 6th Essex R soldiers in the 2560s no. range, Cutler may have attested aged still 17 around 11 Oct 1914 (Ancestry images):

 

Edited 27 April , 2024 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Provost]

Evening,

George Edward Cutler was born in Manor Park, the son of Walter Edward Cutler. He first enlisted into the Essex Regt on 11th October 1914, before transferring into the Border Regt. He transferred into the Military Foot Police on 16th July 1918 and was allotted the No P16097. He was discharged on 2nd February 1919. The following day, he re-enlisted into the MFP at Etaples, and was given the new No 1371 - his age is listed as 20 years 2 months and his occupation as a clerk. When the new Army numbers came into effect, his number changed to 7681405. He was discharged at Aldershot on 31st March 1923 as a LCpl on the termination of his 2nd period of engagement - his character is listed as Good. 

He then re-enlisted into the Essex Regt TA No 7681405 on 13th June 1923 and was discharged on 14th April 1925.

Cheers,

Richard

[Ivor Anderson]

Thanks Richard. Great to have those additional post war details up to 1925.  

I wonder how he ended up getting married and living in S Wales from 1930? His wife, Katie Elizabeth Fletcher, was born Matlock 29 Dec 1896 (Ancestry images):

Edited 29 April , 2024 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

Would I  be correct in assuming that his MM award helped in his transfer to the Military Foot Police in July 1918?

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/86031-military-foot-police-regiment/

 

[Provost]

Afternoon Ivor,

Not at all - if that were the case, the Military Police Corps would be the most highly decorated unit in the Army! Transfer into the Corps at this time was on experience and aptitude. In 1915, a large proportion of those joining the Corps did so based on their previous service with the civilian police (unlike other transferees, these men were posted directly to the Corps). Others would be transferred because they had some experience as Regimental or Garrison Police. I have noticed a trend of men being transferred into the Corps following a wound - not serious enough to warrant discharge, but of a severity taking them away from front-line trench warfare.

Cheers,

Richard

 

[Tom Lang]

On 25/04/2024 at 09:08, Ivor Anderson said:

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Passchendaele

"The 51st Brigade of the 17th (Northern) Division was to advance for 1,600 yd (1,500 m) astride the Ypres–Staden railway, to meet the left flank of the 4th Division north of Poelcappelle and the right flank of the Guards Division, 400 yd (370 m) north of the railway. Beyond the railway, the advance of the 51st Brigade veered slightly south, away from a German strongpoint which caused many casualties and lost touch with the Guards Division. South of the embankment, astride the Broombeek and Watervlietbeek streams, several German farm strongpoints, pillboxes and shell-hole positions were overrun by the infantry, who were able to keep well up to the very-slow-moving barrage. The brigade reached its first objective by 8:00 a.m., despite a number of German reinforcements arriving through the British artillery barrages. The final objective was reached at 11:00 a.m. and on the right a defensive flank was thrown back from Memling Farm at the final objective, to link with the 4th Division. By noon the advance was complete, 218 German prisoners had been taken and no German counter-attack followed, resistance being limited to a small amount of rifle fire." 

War diary of 7th Border Regiment re 12 Oct 1917 (source TNA):

I thought you might like to see the pages from my transcription of the 7th Border Regt WD for 1st to 20th Oct 1917.

Tom.

[Ivor Anderson]

6 hours ago, Provost said:

Others would be transferred because they had some experience as Regimental or Garrison Police. I have noticed a trend of men being transferred into the Corps following a wound - not serious enough to warrant discharge, but of a severity taking them away from front-line trench warfare.

Thanks Richard, I cannot find him in the casualty lists, but perhaps he had in house experience. His MIC shows A/Cpl with the Border Regt.

3 hours ago, Tom Lang said:

I thought you might like to see the pages from my transcription of the 7th Border Regt WD for 1st to 20th Oct 1917.

 Thanks Tom, Those are very clear & helpful.  Ivor