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Help needed to verify record


Belfast0826

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Can anyone please help me to verify the army record I think have found for my grandfather.  The following information is from the transcript of the record.

First name(s)                      Thomas J 

Last name                          Spence

Year                                     1914-20

Service number                 7363, 302463, 32925

Second service number    302463

Third service number        32925

Rank                                    Private, Private, Private

Second rank                       Private

Third rank                          Private

Regiment                            Royal Irish Rifles, Tank Corps, Royal Irish Fusiliers

Second corps                     Tank Corps

Third corps                         Royal Irish Fusiliers

Service record                   Soldier Number: 7363, Rank: Private, Corps: Royal Irish Rifles

Second service record     Soldier Number: 302463, Rank: Private, Corps: Tank Corps

Third service record         Soldier Number: 32925, Rank: Private, Corps: Royal Irish Fusiliers

Image link                          http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D5326752 

Country Great Britain

Medal type                        British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920

Archive reference             WO372/18

Archive reference description      Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards

Record set                          Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards

Category                             Military, armed forces & conflict

Subcategory                       Medal Rolls and Honours

Collections from               Great Britain, UK None

 

Non-Military Info:

Thomas James Spence: 18th July 1895

Parents: John and Jane Spence [born Caldwell]

1911 Census living at 12 Harrison Street, Belfast,

Occupation: Mill Yarn Doffer

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Welcome to the forum

By looking at his service numbers individually I came across this - so the man's middle name is James - is that the same as your relative's? (Image courtesy FMP)

image.png

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If it is your relative's middle name then I can add a Belfast address from his MIC (courtesy Ancestry) - does this match?

image.png

image.png

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Many thanks for the info, very much appreciated 

Yes his middle name is James and he lived at 57 Hooker St Belfast (where I was born), so this is my grandfather.  As I am new to this, can you please point me in the direction that I can go to establish the theatres of war in which he served and if it possible to get a copy of this military service records. 

Many thanks

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As his MIC above does not have a date or Theatre of War recorded on it he went overseas after 1-1-1916. 

It would appear that his service record along with most did not survive the Luftwaffe's attentions in WW2.

Ancestry Medal Rolls have this

image.png

So war diaries for the relevant units can be found at TNA and downloaded for free once registered (also free). The problem will be knowing when he moved from unit to unit.

7 Battalion Royal Irish Rifles | The National Archives

2 Brigade Tank Corps. 15 Battalion Tank Corps | The National Archives

2 Brigade Tank Corps. 15 Battalion Tank Corps War History | The National Archives

Not digitised so needs a visit to Kew or book an independent researcher to copy it for you 29 Infantry Brigade: 6 Battalion Royal Irish Rifles (1917 Sept - 1918 May). 1/7... | The National Archives

You could do worse than look at Welcome - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk) for pointers on ww1 research.

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Many thanks for the info, very much appreciated 

Yes his middle name is James and he lived at 57 Hooker St Belfast (where I was born), so this is my grandfather.  As I am new to this, can you please point me in the direction that I can go to establish the theatres of war in which he served and if it possible to get a copy of this military service records. 

Many thanks

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Thank you once again.

I will definitely book a trip to Kew, been there a couple of months ago to review 1921 Census and to make myself familiar with the set up.

Kind regards

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I suspect but am not certain that Fold3 on Ancestry has a Court Martial record (T J Spence Dec 1921) which may explain why his medals were forfeited for misconduct (there may also be a 1920 record which is relevant).

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Hi David

Thank you for the info.

I was looking in Fold3 on MIC and found another Thomas J Spence with a different number 14/6169.  At first I thought it was another person until I compered the signatures and they are identical.  I also have a copy of his signature on an official document and it is the same.  I guess that as he had been in 3 different regiments in is possible that he was in four.  Page4.jpg.b2a7facb76775a94d27221094f45eea1.jpg

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The other Thomas Spence became a Prisoner of War on 24 March 1918. The address of his next of kin: 
28 Sunnyside Street, Ormeau Road, Belfast
His date of birth is 18 March 1891.

Source ICRC muster PA 27891

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