Austrian M95 bayonet

[Winterhawk]

What is this? It is mounted up on the grips of a standard Austrian made M95 bayonet. I assume the K.U.K refers to the Austria Hungarian Empire, and the 90 J.R. is 90th Regiment? Hanaken? Russland (Russia). Is this a Cap badge? Commemorative plaque?

[AndyBsk]

It would be nice to see the overall bayonet its for rifle or Stutzen? for NCO? and possible pommel stamp, yes this should be a normal austrian cap emblem of Inf.Regiment nr.90 this unit was located mostly in today Poland, the nationality mentioned from 75% should be polish and other minoritys, the 1916 period since it was commandered by czech oberst J.Hanak  which i mean the name is divided from his name - Hanaken. the Stahlhelm symbol speaks clearly for 1916 and later period, even there is 1914-18?

Infantry Regiment Edler von Horsetzky Nr.90
(created in 1883)
Peace Dislocation Regiment in February 1914:
Commander - Oberst Friedrich Watterich von Watterichsburg
regiment headquarters, II. and III. battalion (Jaroslau), I. battalion (Sarajevo), IV. battalion (Lubaczów)
superior units: 2nd Infantry Division (X. Army Corps)
Regiment status in July 1914:
ethnic composition: 75% Poles, 25% others
Additional district: Jaroslau (currently Jaroslau in Poland)
 

Edited 25 April by AndyBsk

[Winterhawk]

Thanks a lot Andy that is more info than I have been able to drum up. I am considering buying it but the seller wants a pretty premium price for it. The seller is claiming it as Hungarian but the maker is definitely Austrian "OE" over "WG" Any way here is a picture  of the bayonet/scabbard/frog as requested

[AndyBsk]

Yes the piece is austro ugrian M95 rifle bayonet, both parts eagle proofed so should be k.u.k unit also main army, some units were located in Ugria, Its a WW1 production. maker is on both parts Steyr.

[navydoc16]

On 25/04/2024 at 17:02, Winterhawk said:

What is this? It is mounted up on the grips of a standard Austrian made M95 bayonet. I assume the K.U.K refers to the Austria Hungarian Empire, and the 90 J.R. is 90th Regiment? Hanaken? Russland (Russia). Is this a Cap badge? Commemorative plaque?

My response would be - just be very very careful with these. 
 

plaques and the like are a very easy way to add significant value to an otherwise very cheap piece. 

In relation to your piece I would be asking for very close up photos around the plaque and wood, there should be discolouration and buildup of dust and dirt where the plaque meets the grips. Potentially even corrosion on the grip fasteners as humidity has built up over the last 100 years. 

I have never seen plaque fixed by standard nails, normally they are highly polished and driven in by wood mallet with a piece of leather to avoid marring of the nail heads. 

that plaque has also not been measured correctly and has had to been placed at an angle, which again is odd given it would likely have been commissioned by a jeweller and normally silver. Even when completed by the battalion they are normally to quite a high standard, normally there is at least one “artsy” person in the division/batallion who would make them out of silver coins. But the details on yours would mean it would have to be cast by a jeweller, and therefore finished to a very high standard, this piece would have been expensive to produce then. 

the engraving in my personal opinion looks “off” I’m not saying it’s not real, but my viewings of many other plaques, I would expect it to be - Silver and also engraved by hand. Your dates appear to be actually cast into the piece which makes no sense in terms of commemoration, generally even cast plaques would be hand engraved with the presentees details. 

German/Austrian plaques were to acknowledge service, officers normally with a sword and NCO’s and others either with nothing, or a medallion or beer stein ect. I haven’t seen any bayonets being marked except by unofficial unit commissions. 
 

also the actual caption is wrong to me, it’s written with just the right information to look up. 

had this just been a simple diamond or shield plaque, I would be more inclined to think it is real, the head is just too ornamental, when fixed with two nails crooked- it just screams wrong. 

kind regards

g

[navydoc16]

In my experience, I have only seen a couple commemorative bayonets from Germanic countries during this time period. 

the Officer stuff tends to be “alot” more elaborate and normally is thinks like, swords, silver serving platters, silver plated boxes for ones desk, ornamental busk with the divisions motto and symbol ect. 

Of the Officer bayonets I have seen 2 were acid etched down the blade, one had oak leaves down each vine which stated the name of each major battle that particular CO was in. There seemed to be a “standard style” to both. 
 

of the others I’ve seen, 

One had a shield in simple silver and said translated:

“1st place in batallion X bayonet competition” was prewar dated  1911 or 1912. 
 

Another was a simple shield to a NCO that just translated

“To XX from the men of Xth regiment”

that one was dated 1918 however the details were too sparse to confirm anything further. 

one other was even sparcer, just had two dates

“Souvenir for service

(XX initials)

1915-1918”

 thing is if you are giving a piece to your beloved SGT, then why do you need to put all the details in. It’s for him so you don’t even really need to put his full name, and if it’s just from the boys or the division then you don’t really even need to say much more than that. 

generally the real stuff is rather vague and requires a lot of research - be weary of lots of specifics

kind regards

g

 

[Winterhawk]

Thank you very much for the input. I think one of the most telling features of this being somewhat recent is the lack of discolouring/dirt around the plaque. I will try to get a bit more information from the seller to see where he got it from. I know the seller (general antique dealer) quite well and know him to be an honest guy but not a bayonet expert.

[AndyBsk]

That piece is totally ok, normall cap emblem of 90IR, similar features was done by austrian soldiers. Has been not captured by english or others, its a period piece.

This piece is mostly brought back by the soldier after 1918 as it doesnt have any postwar proofs of austrian or other armies that would be used it or proof it. The cap badge was added there in normal way by pins as seen on many hundred pieces avialable here in middle Europe.

Cap exhibition in Bratislava Burg some years ago. I have in my collection 50 emblems of kappen abzeichen.

Edited 27 April by AndyBsk

[navydoc16]

if that is all it is, then maybe it makes a lot more sense than a “commemorative plaque” which is what the OP first suggested it was. 
 

none the less, a hat badge and a bayonet and two nails - is an easy way to make some extra money

@AndyBskim assuming you have a photo of the original badge? 

im not sure how to authenticate such a piece just from some photos especially since it’s not my funds or able to be handled physically.  I would say OP should still do due-diligence. If these pieces have been together for over 100 years then they should look like they have been. 
 

folks have been nailing “Rising Sun” Australian badges into things for years now - and dealers are all too happy to pass on the story

kind regards

g

Edited 27 April by navydoc16

[AndyBsk]

This badge is original, even i dont have the exact piece of kappenabzeichen, the bayonet itself with this cap, bring not extra value, max plus 30€ on the value. As i have seen here many similar items, its not anything strange there. And offcoarse similar cap badges were for commemorative purposes ordered by soldiers or officer for soldiers of the unit, to sample to Christmas, to year switch to differenciate a unit from other and their history of fighting in ww1. And they would be added by pins to handle of bayonet , partly by NCOs or by soldiers. The emblem is already destroyed by the pins trough it, so it wouldnt saleable for emblem collector as the backside pin was removed and new holes were added.

I dont known how many do You have seen bayonets M95 in Your life, but i have in collection about 70 samples and saw in 40 years of collecting about 3-4000 pcs here. As this is the most common bayonet of Austro Ugria and avialable in large numbers in middle Europe. There are pictured in book of D.Machnicki when You need comparation. pg67,81,84 and there are period pictures in booklet of G.Kapfer too.

Edited 27 April by AndyBsk