Any info on this bayonet?

[Chuckhall905]

Had this bayonet for a long time but never knew any history on it. Would love to hear about it if anyone knows anything 

Can’t make out the words but it says 1877 I believe 

[Chuckhall905]

Better pictures of what’s engraved 

[AndyBsk]

Nice Gras M1874 bayonet, corectly marked for Manufacture de Armes in Saint Etienne april 1877, the L prefix is typical for Saint Etienne production rifle. it should have matching scabbard, the condition speaks for only french use and well storage in last 14x years, origin condition blade.

[Winterhawk]

Andy I am curious. I have asked a number of dealers where all these pre-WWI French bayonets have been appearing from. No one has a clue. Any idea? There seems to be lots of them for sale

[AndyBsk]

It was a large number of units produced, which could be stored anywhere prior WW1 and not used.Nothing strange there, the value by matching numbers are around 100€.

[navydoc16]

2 hours ago, Winterhawk said:

Andy I am curious. I have asked a number of dealers where all these pre-WWI French bayonets have been appearing from. No one has a clue. Any idea? There seems to be lots of them for sale

Bit more of a simple one in my opinion, it’s common everywhere and with alot of bayonets and equipment from “the Great War” simply the amount of time that’s passed means a lot of folks no longer have a personal connection with “such and such” family member who brought it home and would rather have the couple hundred bucks in whichever currency- than keep some random item that belonged to a distant family member (so I hear from a lot of dealers at the moment) 

kind regards

g

[peregrinvs]

I would guess a lot of M1874 Gras bayonets survive because they were made in their millions and were only a frontline weapon between 1874 and 1886 when AFAIK the French didn’t fight any major wars. = An awful lot of them made it on to the surplus market.

[MikeyH]

11 minutes ago, peregrinvs said:

I would guess a lot of M1874 Gras bayonets survive because they were made in their millions and were only a frontline weapon between 1874 and 1886 when AFAIK the French didn’t fight any major wars. = An awful lot of them made it on to the surplus market.

As a small boy, back in the 1950's I was told by a local auctioneer who was a family friend, that the reason French bayonets from that period were so plentiful in the U.K., is that they were used as ships ballast and sometimes offloaded as unwanted onto wharves.  I can recall a large quantity being found in the Thames in fairly recent times, think they were 1866 pattern.

Mike.

[navydoc16]

On 25/04/2024 at 23:20, MikeyH said:

As a small boy, back in the 1950's I was told by a local auctioneer who was a family friend, that the reason French bayonets from that period were so plentiful in the U.K., is that they were used as ships ballast and sometimes offloaded as unwanted onto wharves.  I can recall a large quantity being found in the Thames in fairly recent times, think they were 1866 pattern.

Mike.

Honestly not sure mate, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to be honest- at the very least any bayonets used as ballast would be subjected to the bilge water and would be little more than rusty pikes after a month 

kind regards

g

On 25/04/2024 at 23:01, peregrinvs said:

I would guess a lot of M1874 Gras bayonets survive because they were made in their millions and were only a frontline weapon between 1874 and 1886 when AFAIK the French didn’t fight any major wars. = An awful lot of them made it on to the surplus market.

It’s still difficult to sell them, I know a couple dealers that don’t bother the space to take them to shows.

for many years they were turned into ornaments by the French, fire pokers, candle holders ect. 
 

kind regards

g

[MikeyH]

1 hour ago, navydoc16 said:

Honestly not sure mate, but it seems like a bit of a stretch to be honest- at the very least any bayonets used as ballast would be subjected to the bilge water and would be little more than rusty pikes after a month 

kind regards

g

It’s still difficult to sell them, I know a couple dealers that don’t bother the space to take them to shows.

for many years they were turned into ornaments by the French, fire pokers, candle holders ect. 
 

kind regards

g

Navydoc,

Ships ballast - at that time they would have been thought of as just so much scrap metal, no collectors then.  Old cannon barrels were often used as ballast in the British Navy.

Mike.

Edited 28 April by MikeyH

[navydoc16]

12 hours ago, MikeyH said:

Navydoc,

Ships ballast - at that time they would have been thought of as just so much scrap metal, no collectors then.  Old cannons were often used as ballast in the British Navy.

Mike.

Yeah I’m not doubting they weren’t worth much, but first of all they weren’t “scrap” enough to be used as actual scrap, they have allways been worth “something” more than scrap. 

but more importantly in the modern age, as theoretical ballast they would take up too much space and have the potential to move around.

There is a reason pig-iron and lead ingots +/- concrete are used as ballast -

cannons were purported to have been used in the age of sail hundreds of years ago so it has no particular reference to bayonets.

I’ve never heard in my naval career and studies, any type of scrap metal being used loosely as ballast. One tonne of lead would be tens of times smaller in surface area dimension than one tonne of bayonets.

kind regards

g
 

 

Edited Sunday at 22:50 by navydoc16