Pte John J Callaly 3607 Lancashire Fusiliers - in which Battalion did he serve?

[colm callaly]

hi all, 

looking for information on my grandfather, John Callaly, in particular confirmation that he served in the 9th Service Battalion of the LF. any suggestions welcome please (im a newbie at this !). 

[RussT]

Welcome to the Forum

He earned his 1914/1915 Star with the 9th Battalion LF.

His VM/BWM Medal Roll shows that he ended his service with the 16th Battalion so it is evident he was posted at some time from the 9th to the 16th.

Regards

Russ

[RussT]

He is on a WO Casualty List dated 18/08/1917 in a long list of wounded LF men (name misspelt as Callery)

It is likely he was posted from the 9th to the 16th following his recovering from this wound.

Just to note that the actual wounding would have been around 3 to 5 weeks before the date of the record.

Russ

(Image courtesy The Genealogist)

 

[Michelle Young]

Just FYI, the correct abbreviation for a Private soldier in the British and Dominions Armies is Pte. Pvt is a US abbreviation. 

[colm callaly]

Russ,

thanks a lot for this - how would I go about ascertaining the date of his transfer ? - trying to understand exactly where he served on the western front after returning from Gallipoli ?

[RussT]

He was also wounded late 1917 - he is on a WO Casualty List dated 02/11/1917.

Russ

 

[RussT]

2 minutes ago, colm callaly said:

how would I go about ascertaining the date of his transfer ? - trying to understand exactly where he served on the western front after returning from Gallipoli ?

Without a service record (he does not have one) it will be difficult if not impossible to find his date of posting (not transfer) from the 9th to the 16th.

One approach is to look at the Medal Rolls/Service Files of the other men on these Wounded Lists to see who they were serving with at the time, which might lead to clues in being able to bound the service dates with a given Battalion.

You could look at the War Diaries for the 9th and 16th Battalions to see where they were operating on a day to day basis. War Diaries are free to download from TNA.

Russ

[colm callaly]

thanks a lot Russ and Michelle - noted. I may have more questions if thats ok

 

[RussT]

Looks like his wounds were such that it officially led to his discharge and he was therefore awarded a Silver War Badge (SWB).

His SWB Roll tells you he enlisted on 24/08/1914 and was discharged (aged 28) on 12/12/1919 under KR 392 (xvi) - no longer physically fit for war service.

Just for interest - do you have his 3 medals and SWB?

Regards

Russ

 

[colm callaly]

Hi Russ, this is what I have. could you please explain each of these ? - no SWB ?
Colm

[RussT]

Those are his 3 Medals - all explained here - note that the ribbons have been mounted on the wrong medals - the link below explains all.

The British campaign medals for the Great War - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

 

His SWB would look like this:

Explained here:

Records of the Silver War Badge - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

 

[Matlock1418]

3 hours ago, RussT said:

He is on a WO Casualty List dated 18/08/1917 in a long list of wounded LF men (name misspelt as Callery)

There are two index cards at Western Front Association/Fold3 under John CALLERY, 3607, Lancashire Fusiliers

One is an unspecified cause disability pension Ministry of Pensions claim. As identified above, discharged 12.12.19.  28/- pw from 13/12/19 to 14/12/20 [under the 1919 Royal Warrant that was the 70% degree of disability rate for a pension Class V soldier/Private]

The other is for a Grant by the Military Service (Civil Liabilities) Department ... £65 towards purchase of horse, cart and harness [paid 15.2.21] - address given as Moyne Ballaghaderreen Roscommon

M

Edit: there is also an associated pension ledger page at WFA/Fold3 - shows him born 1891 and single. GSW Rt Arm and GSW Lt Thigh [though that might read as gun shot wound that commonly was a form of shorthand for any type of wound by a projectile or fragment, including from shells, mortar bombs, grenades etc.]  His address shown is Parnell Lodge, Parnell Place, Rathmines The reverse of this page confirms the 70% disability and shows 28/- pw awards continuing to at least 12/2/24

Edited 24 April by Matlock1418
edit

[colm callaly]

thanks very much Matlock - fascinating detail !. We understand that after his second wounding he spent time in a military hospital in England and then in Temple Hill, Blackrock, Co. Dublin. At some point after discharge he became entitled to a Home for Heroes House in Sandymount Co.Dublin where he lived for the rest of his life. 

 

 

Colm

[colm callaly]

Dear Matlock (or anyone else who could assist), does any of the information you have in his discharge/pension etc disclose what Btn of the LF he was serving in at the time ? Any more detail on that such as company he was part of etc ? I have the war diaries of the 9th and the 16th so knowing which he was in when injured for the second time would be really helpful in locating where he was at that time. Thanks again colm

[Matlock1418]

27 minutes ago, colm callaly said:

Dear Matlock (or anyone else who could assist), does any of the information you have in his discharge/pension etc disclose what Btn of the LF he was serving in at the time ? Any more detail on that such as company he was part of etc ?

Colm, Unfortunately his pension records at WFA/Fold3 do not reveal his Bn or Coy.

M

[colm callaly]

Hi All

a further query if I may - I understand that John was attached to 'forcek13/Company Z' at the time of his discharge (?). Can anyone shed light on what that was please ? thanks Colm

[Michelle Young]

Can you please post the document so we can see it? Thanks 

[colm callaly]

No it’s just a reference in a family history written by my dad

[colm callaly]

no unfortunately i got this reference from a family history written by my dad - no documentary evidence of it. I read somewhere that it could refer to a reserve bn/formation ?

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, colm callaly said:

I understand that John was attached to 'forcek13/Company Z' at the time of his discharge (?). Can anyone shed light on what that was please ?

'forcek13/Company Z' - that means nothing to me.

John CALLERY, 3607, Lancashire Fusiliers

The pension index card and pension ledger page have no reference to Z on them 

His initial discharge/initial claim reference was a Chelsea Hospital one and makes no reference to Z

Of course Z could perhaps refer to Army Z Reserve [??]

A rate intepreted as 70% degree of disability would suggest he was not at all fit on discharge and I would have thought unlikely material for the Z Reserve.

Generally info on Z Reserve see: https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/british-army-reserves-and-reservists

???

M

[colm callaly]

thanks Matlock, he was pretty banged up but worked and lived a full life in Dublin in a 'home for heroes' family house in Sandymount and died at 82. thanks for the info on 'Z'