Infantry signal riders

[Ryan1997]

Hi,

 

looking for some help on infantry signal riders. 
I cannot seem to find much on the internet so hoping there is an expert out.

 

i am researching a soldier of the 2/5th Battalion Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry who was knocked off his horse by a gas shell. He was riding with a message from his commanding officer. 
 

does anyone have information on the following:

 

•how were these men selected to be signal riders?

•were these men kept out the lines and mainly used for signal riding?

Many thanks,

Ryan. 

[mancpal]

Ryan, 

I’m a bit confused by “infantry signal riders”. I haven’t come across the term before, where did you get the reference from? 
Infantry Regiments did have their own trained signallers, my great uncle being one of them. 
The Royal Engineers had a great deal to do with WW1 signals but don’t remember the specific term you use. 
Motor cycle dispatch riders came under the RE though I’d think they must have used horses in the early days as motorcycles weren’t that prevalent. 
The information that he was knocked off his mount by a  gas shell may take some proving beyond family lore.

I genuinely hope I haven’t put you off your research. If you have any other family details such as parents/children’s names, addresses, pre-war occupation or pretty much anything else it usually generates good responses from many knowledgeable members which often builds into a pretty accurate picture.

Simon

 

 

[stevenbecker]

Sig riders are more Cavalry, often called despatch riders

Of course riders were at all HQ's to carry despatches or orders, up and lower down the chain.

In the trenches there was no need for horses by the Infantry, but riders from Bde down to Bns could use riders to rear Bn HQ's

Accounts by despatch riders are out there and it was a hard job at times when under fire, but most jobs were when under fire.

The poor B...y Infantry get all the glory, while the poor sods moving stuff up to them, to keep them in the fight, don't

[TEW]

Are we allowed his name or a date? Presumably it would be 1917?

TEW

[mancpal]

Thanks Steven,

I hadn’t come across “infantry signal rider” before, nor a cavalry signal rider to be truthful! I am more familiar with dispatch riders but , evidently incorrectly, have always associated them with motorcycles.

Simon
 

 

Edited 23 April by mancpal

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Yes I am more on the Cavalry side, but of cause Infantry did and could mount riders for signals work

I am unsure if such are on the Tos (table of Strength) as most were by Signals units then Bn's.

Infantry were not always in Trenches, as I am use to Palestine and Mespot. where they were more moblie

[Ryan1997]

Morning Both,

The terminology was used by the family to describe the role of the soldier. I also had never heard this term. 
 

Information I have is below:

 

Harry Balding

Place Of Birth: Mexborough

Birth Year: 1892

Service: British Army

Enlistment date: 6th December 1915

Service number: 241832

Regiment: Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry

Battalion: 5th Battalion

 

In May 1917 at Bullcourt he was riding with a message from his commanding officer when he was knocked off his horse by a gas shell and overcome by poison gas. After being treated in Woolwich hospital for some time he was put before a medical board on 9th May 1917 and declared unfit due to TB. On 30th May 1917 he was discharged from the Army and awarded a silver war badge (which indicated he had served and been discharged from the army) and returned to live at Austerfield. He however never recovered from the effects of his gassing and went back into hospital again at the Cardigan Sanatorium, Wakefield where he died on 11th January 1918.

He was buried in Austerfield Church, his body was brought from Wakefield by railway and he was buried with full military honours aged 25 years.

 

 

cheers.

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Ryan1997 said:

Harry Balding

Place Of Birth: Mexborough

Birth Year: 1892

Service: British Army

Enlistment date: 6th December 1915

Service number: 241832

Regiment: Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry

Battalion: 5th Battalion

In May 1917 at Bullcourt he was riding with a message from his commanding officer when he was knocked off his horse by a gas shell and overcome by poison gas. After being treated in Woolwich hospital for some time he was put before a medical board on 9th May 1917 and declared unfit due to TB. On 30th May 1917 he was discharged from the Army and awarded a silver war badge (which indicated he had served and been discharged from the army) and returned to live at Austerfield. He however never recovered from the effects of his gassing and went back into hospital again at the Cardigan Sanatorium, Wakefield where he died on 11th January 1918.

He was buried in Austerfield Church, his body was brought from Wakefield by railway and he was buried with full military honours aged 25 years.

On the subject of Harry BALDING himself ... Everyone be aware there is another Harry BALDING thread at:

 M

Edited 24 April by Matlock1418

[TEW]

2 hours ago, Ryan1997 said:

Morning Both,

The terminology was used by the family to describe the role of the soldier. I also had never heard this term. 
 

Information I have is below:

 

 

Harry Balding

Place Of Birth: Mexborough

Birth Year: 1892

Service: British Army

Enlistment date: 6th December 1915

Service number: 241832

Regiment: Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry

Battalion: 5th Battalion

 

In May 1917 at Bullcourt he was riding with a message from his commanding officer when he was knocked off his horse by a gas shell and overcome by poison gas. After being treated in Woolwich hospital for some time he was put before a medical board on 9th May 1917 and declared unfit due to TB. On 30th May 1917 he was discharged from the Army and awarded a silver war badge (which indicated he had served and been discharged from the army) and returned to live at Austerfield. He however never recovered from the effects of his gassing and went back into hospital again at the Cardigan Sanatorium, Wakefield where he died on 11th January 1918.

He was buried in Austerfield Church, his body was brought from Wakefield by railway and he was buried with full military honours aged 25 years.

 

 

cheers.

Well, my Grandfather was with the CO just before the CO was killed early that day.

Balding's CO may have been a company commander or someone on the staff but it's not a story I've ever heard of.

Gas at 2nd Bullecourt as far as I recall is not something thst usually figures in any narratives.

There's no corresponding Casualty List for him.

Presumably the message would be heading to Brigade HQ?

I'd have to check diaries etc. later. The story does intrigue me though.

Incidently, the 6 digit numbers were not used at 2/5th KOYLI level until June IE. the diary or messages still use 4 digits in May.

TEW

[Ryan1997]

Hi,

The information i gathered was from this website. I can only imagine the information came from the KOYLI museum maybe. 
I have emailed the museum but have had no response at all. 

https://rollofhonour.nottinghamshire.gov.uk

I took the information on the above webpage as genuine as to what happened to Harry Balding. Unsure if there is more to uncover?

Attached are some documents I have gathered.

 

It looks like on one of the documents there are two regimental numbers listed?

 

Thanks in advance. 

[Matlock1418]

7 minutes ago, Ryan1997 said:

Attached are some documents I have gathered.

Please attribute these pension documents to the Western Front Association [as their original source]

8 minutes ago, Ryan1997 said:

It looks like on one of the documents there are two regimental numbers listed?

As 5 Bn KOYLI that would be a Territorial Force battalion [with original number 4766] - the TF were renumbered in 1917 https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/

[TEW]

I've looked through everything I have and the diary only states 156 wounded 3/5/17.

There's no mention of gas being used by the enemy.

I can't say I've ever seen anything regarding the use of horses for 3/5/17.

The discharge date of 30/5/17 is very soon after his supposed wounding event, far too soon I'd say.

The other post on him suggests the tubercule on the lung originated in Jan 1917. This would make a discharge in May 1917 a better scenario.

There's no official wound publication for him. There are a few reasons this could happen but with other aspects of the story I think it's just a story.

If his lung problem originated in Jan 17 I'd suspect he was in the UK 3/5/17.

TEW

[Ryan1997]

Thanks for having a look.

 

Unsure as to where to go with this gent. 
Seems mysterious. 
 

Thanks again.

 

Ryan

[mancpal]

Ryan,

if by chance he did reach Bullecourt you may be interested in Paul Kendalls book “Bullecourt “. Both my grandfathers were there with the Manchesters, one captured the other unscathed.
I have to say Tews analysis has more than a ring of truth about it with regard to timing of discharge.

Simon