Over seas service stripes

[Rusy]

Hi I’ve just your forum and have learn a lot regarding ww1 kit from previous posts.

I was hoping that someone could help me with a baffling question.

i have a 1902 pattern tunic from a L/C Fed Jackson West Yorkshire Regiment . He was killed in action in the front line east of  Ypres on 4/05/1916 service no 17150.

His tunic came with a card red star stapled to the tunic pocket .which is very puzzling. What I don’t understand is that he died in 1916 and yet there is evidence of over seas stripes having been sewn onto the right arm.

There is no evidence of the tunic being reissued only his service number . I would be very grateful if any could shed any light on this.

[Andrew Upton]

1 hour ago, Rusy said:

..I have a 1902 pattern tunic from a L/C Fed Jackson West Yorkshire Regiment...

Do you have any pictures of the tunic? A lot can happen to an item over more than a century.

[Rusy]

[Andrew Upton]

I recognize having seen that tunic for sale now - as I recall it displayed various evidence of having been heavily damaged and then repaired in the period (eg the top of the right arm and the bottoms of both chest pockets). This is my books would be strong evidence for it having been repaired/reissued after the death of Jackson and then essentially used by a subsequent owner/s (who could have been entitled to Overseas Service Chevrons) to near destruction.

Edited 22 April by Andrew Upton

[Rusy]

Hi Andrew thanks for your reply I did think that it could of been reissued but thought it odd that there is only evidence of one service number marked inside.

[mark holden]

Do you have pictures of the service number?

[Rusy]

Hi Mark yeah this is the inside 

 

[mark holden]

Is there any other provenance to the jacket aside the service number? 
 

56 soldiers served overseas under that number. If you subtract those who served with units that wore two part titles or were rifle regiments that drops to 44. 
 

I own a 1902 SD jacket that was sold as part of a large Border regiment collection. It had Border titles when purchased. It also had a service number inside but that number was not used by any Border Regiment soldiers. The collector had added the Border titles to suit their collecting interests . 
 

The problem with the passing of time and items through collectors and dealers hands is that badges get added and removed. So provenance to me is key when attributing ownership.

 

 

[Rusy]

Hi Mark

I have done some research into Fred Jackson and there was a soldier by that name with that service no in the West Yorkshire reg . With some help I have seen a  entry in a local Yorkshire paper dated 09/06/1916 from an Officer in his regiment he states “Jackson was killed on the afternoon of 04/05/1916 his death was instantaneous  and was caused by the bursting of an high explosive shell his death was a great loss to the company the men were very fond of him he his buried behind the line in a military cemetery I do not know the name”. Jackson was fighting in trenches near Essex Farm cemetery in the canal sector and it seems he was from the 1st Battalion c company .His grave is at Essex farm Cemetery. Having read the 1st Battalion war dairy this confirms one o/r killed that day after very heaving German shelling by trench mortars.

 

 

 

[mark holden]

I have no doubt that a Fred Jackson served under that service number and was killed. The difficulty without other corroborating evidence is that 43 other men had the same number. It’s possible that the jacket might be the one he left behind before going overseas which was recycled or reissued ( only one jacket worn on active service) this might explain the ghosting of overseas service chevrons. 

[Rusy]

Yeah that may be the case I suppose we shall never really know conclusively 

[Muerrisch]

21 minutes ago, mark holden said:

I have no doubt that a Fred Jackson served under that service number and was killed. The difficulty without other corroborating evidence is that 43 other men had the same number. It’s possible that the jacket might be the one he left behind before going overseas which was recycled or reissued ( only one jacket worn on active service) this might explain the ghosting of overseas service chevrons. 

Mark, is that a generality? Was it policy? Is there a reference please? 

At first sight it seems unwise to take [or have taken] a second jacket, but, given that they were "personal" issue, both jackets were the soldiers' property.

After a while a soldier with only one jacket in the front line would need a replacement. 

That conjures up strange scenarios, does it not?

Or am I misunderstanding? Please educate me!

[mark holden]

My reference is the Field Service Pocket book various dates page 191 (1914 edition) and a discussion with Chief Chum ( Taff Gillingham) FSPB refers to spare kit being held by OC Base details and taken overseas to be left in charge of storemen  at the General Base depot.

 

 

[Muerrisch]

5 hours ago, mark holden said:

My reference is the Field Service Pocket book various dates page 191 (1914 edition) and a discussion with Chief Chum ( Taff Gillingham) FSPB refers to spare kit being held by OC Base details and taken overseas to be left in charge of storemen  at the General Base depot.

 

 

Thank you. The storemen were [should have been] of the small battalion base contingent so might, just might be safe and available as and when.

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