Gustrow POW Camp

[KCBC]

Hello everyone, I am new to this site so please forgive me if I have posted this in the wrong section.

I am researching my husbands maternal Grandfather Alfred Spencer and we would dearly love to find out more. He was born 16th July 1898 in Hackney, Middlesex (as it was know then).  Alfred was captured on 26th March 1918 on the West Front in Peronne, France and sent to Gustow POW Camp. I have managed to find some documents through the International Committee of the Red Cross and other sites. I have downloaded copies of these together with a couple of postcards which Alfred brought back, one of which he wrote Binche on the back . Alfred is standing on the righthand side in both photos. I believe he served in the 2nd Devonshire's, his  Service number is: 31013.

Any help/information is appreciated.

Many thanks.

KCBC

 

[kenf48]

@KCBC Welcome to the GWF

Not too sure what you are looking for but:-

The medal roll on Ancestry also shows 206th Infantry Bn 8/2474.  Not sure about the 106th it was probably the 206th, but the number means he was in a draft from a Training Reserve Battalion, in all probability the 33rd.  This suggests he was conscripted in his turn aged 18 years and three months.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/training-reserve/training-reserve-remodelled-in-1917/

Near number sampling indicates he was posted to the BEF on the 26th July 1917 and on the 20 August 1917 at  the Infantry Base Depot was posted to the 2nd Battalion Devonshire Regiment. The war diary shows a draft of 314 other ranks joining on the 20 August 1917.

You can download the war diary for this period for free from TNA if you register

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017265

 

 

[KCBC]

Thank you kenf48 for the info, I will download the war diary. I was not very clear as to what I was looking for. I was hoping someone's grandfather etc was in the same POW Camp/regiment and may have a photo or two plus some information about their incarseration in the Camp, a longshot I know.  My husband's grandfather did not talk about his time in the war like so many others. 

[AOK4]

14 minutes ago, KCBC said:

Thank you kenf48 for the info, I will download the war diary. I was not very clear as to what I was looking for. I was hoping someone's grandfather etc was in the same POW Camp/regiment and may have a photo or two plus some information about their incarseration in the Camp, a longshot I know.  My husband's grandfather did not talk about his time in the war like so many others. 

A lot of POWs remained behind the Western Front and worked in some capacity for the German Army. I don't know whether there are (UK) sources about prisoners and where they exactly were.

Jan

[mancpal]

KCBC,

Gustrow was a large camp used as a postal address for many prisoners who had been sent there, processed and dispersed to satellite labour camps. As Jan suggests he may have been retained behind the lines and merely registered at Gustrow. My grandad passed through Gustrow on his way to Gettorf labour camp (building a railway). He had been captured in May ‘17 at Bullecourt but didn’t appear at Gustrow until many months later, I suspect the missing months were spent working behind German lines. 
I note on Alfreds index card a reference with an R prefix, this should reveal some detail of his repatriation.

Simon

[KCBC]

Thank you both.   With regard to his repatriation, I have now found that information by checking 'R 53084'. I understand that he was repatriated to Dover from Boulogne ex A.T. "Camprai" 2nd December 1918 but, I am not sure about the No.2  Record Office 'Exeter' under which he is listed as a L/C ('Lance Corporal'??). Does that mean his repatriation was dealt with by this Record Office.  Any information that will point me in the right direction would be appreciated. This is all new to me.

 

 

 

[mancpal]

KCBC, 

given that his repatriation was via Boulogne and Dover I’d guess he was not at Gustrow when the war ended. I say this as Gustrow is in North East Germany, very many miles from Boulogne. I believe prisoners from the Northern camps where mainly repatriated via Copenhagen under ‘The Danish Scheme’ , a small number also being repatriated went to Sweden until transport was available . 
There are a few threads about the Danish Scheme on the forum.

Simon

P.S. The men who were returned via the Danish Scheme I think mainly docked at Northern ports, Hull and Leith (Edinburgh) being two that spring to mind.

Edited 22 April by mancpal

[kenf48]

37 minutes ago, KCBC said:

 I am not sure about the No.2  Record Office 'Exeter' under which he is listed as a L/C ('Lance Corporal'??). Does that mean his repatriation was dealt with by this Record Office.  Any information that will point me in the right direction would be appreciated. This is all new to me.

 

 

 

It means his records, as a soldier in the Devonshire Regiment, were held at No 2  Record Office in Exeter.

The organisation of the record offices is described in some detail by forum pal @FROGSMILE on this thread and notes the addresses of the RO were in the Army Lists.

 Whilst the tread relates to the Shrewsbury Record Office it will give a good introduction to the work of the Record Offices and their organisation. Put simply the records of each soldier in a particular regiment/corps/command were held there  as an administrative hub. The No 2 office was probably created due to the massive expansion of the Army in the Great War.  The records were centralised in the 1920s and of course eventually stored at the Arnside Street Warehouse which was bombed in 1940. However many were destroyed before then 

https://warrecordsrevealed.com/a-comparison-of-the-sections-on-the-disposal-of-soldiers-documents-meaning-service-records-in-kings-regulations-1912-amended-up-to-1914-kings-regulations-1923-and-kings-regulations-1940/

I suspect No 2 Record  Office was attached to the Devonshire Depot which was in Howell Road Exeter but you could confirm from the Army Lists which are online at the National Library of Scotland.

 

 

[mancpal]

KCBC,

with the assistance of google earth it appears Binche (as shown on the reverse of the group photo) is in Belgium, ESE of Mons, German territory at the time I believe.
The soldiers depicted have no  belts, puttees etc. Some have cap badges, some apparently not, and of course a slouch hat thrown into the mix. 
I reckon this photo was taken after capture, when as mentioned above they were being used as forced labour. The uniforms are not pow issue featuring a stripe down outer leg and armband integral to manufacture (not possible to remove), simply what they were wearing when captured. He may of course have reached Gustrow later but that wouldn’t reconcile his repatriation via Boulogne in my mind 
My only conundrum is if captured in 1918 I’d expect to see helmets rather than caps. I can understand prisoners not being allowed to retain a helmet as no doubt it could be utilised in numerous subversive fashions. I just wonder where the caps came from if not wearing one at the time of capture.

Simon

 

 

Edited 24 April by mancpal
Errors made in original post because it’s past my bedtime

[KCBC]

Still trying to get my head round all the military stuff but, I appreciate all the help and information from everyone.  I have a lot to look for which will keep me busy. Not as easy as I thought.

[mancpal]

KCBC,

even when you think you’ve found everything don’t give up. I thought I’d found all there was learn about my grandads time as a pow, out of the blue a forum member, from his grandads journal mentioned a prisoner who received 2 weeks solitary for sketching a derogatory caricature of a German soldier. I’m as certain as possible that this was my grandfather at work. We have his prison notebook which has a couple of his sketches and some caricatures. In later life he was the go-to person in his firm for cartoons featuring his work mates ( also an accomplished amateur artist generally in watercolour).

Don't be afraid to ask questions if you trip up over anything.

Simon

[KCBC]

That is a great confidence boost, thank you.