1st Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers Gymnasium Staff in lead up to WW1

[FROGSMILE]

In the past week I’ve been lucky to be expertly guided around many of the battlegrounds of 1st and 2nd RWF between 1914 and late summer 1916, treading in the footsteps of various literary legends.  It was a profoundly moving experience, not least because it was the regiment with which I cut my teeth as an infantryman decades later, and with whose history I inevitably became familiar.  Nevertheless, I’d never before visited many of the iconic sites whose names have long tripped readily off my tongue, so to be stood there and look out across the onetime battle area was an experience that will live with me for a long time.

There were many things that struck me as I walked along serried rows of CWGC headstones, each carved immaculately with the cap badge of my youth.  One in particular was the more mature ages of the Regulars who were KIA or DOW during the first 18-months, some with familiar Welsh names, but many not.  Regular soldiers tended to come from all over Britain in those early battalions, but as time advanced into 1916 the Kitchener battalions became apparent, with a greater preponderance of Welshmen and graves sometimes inscribed in their language.  Although there were still some older men, many more of the stones were inscribed with teenagers barely out of their youth, and many more stones were marked 18 and 19, in those instances when ages were known.

There is of course nothing new about this, but I thought it might be an appropriate juncture, here and now, in light of these events, to post some photos of the Gymnasium Staff of 1st Bn RWF in 1909, when they were based in Aldershot.  Battalion gymnasiums were relatively newish things, having gained some impetus around the turn of the century and newer barracks were usually built with them already incorporated, but the many more older barracks had them either converted from other buildings, or newly built in a suitable space.  They were generally run by a sergeant of the Army Gymnastics Staff, who wore his corps badge on his chest, and the qualified corporals who assisted him were taken from the service companies after attending a course of instruction at the central gymnasium in Aldershot, which is still the the headquarters of the successor corps today.  The assistant instructors were assigned for duty in a similar way to regimental policemen assigned to work with the provost sergeant in running the battalion guardroom.  In war they rejoined their companies and took their places on the firing line.

There are some interesting things to be seen in relation to their dress.  Note the canvas shoes, and the later to become iconic white vests with their red trim around neck and shoulders**.  In this case the trim is cut to create more of a capped shoulder than was later to be the case.  Dark blue serge trousers were the nether garments, and woven regimental badges were often worn in the centre of the chest, or plain crossed swords for those qualified as assistant physical training instructors (APTI).  In winter a red and black hooped knitted woollen jumper was worn.  Notice also the broad belts with double buckles that in later decades became known army wide as stable-belts. 

Although sport increasingly played a large part in the activities, a significant focus was placed upon aggressive competition such as bayonet fighting, boxing and sometimes wrestling (the latter especially in India, although it became less popular as time went on).  These were thought of as part and parcel of ‘assault-at-arms’ and there were regular inter-battalion competitions within the peacetime brigades.  In addition, gymnastics and cricket were popular in summer and in winter football and rugby.  Although body building was perhaps less widely popular than today, men built their upper body strength with Indian club swinging, hand held weights and heavy leathern ‘medicine balls’, and practised gym work on the horse, suspended rings, parallel bars, and ropes.

Looking at these men, their pride in themselves is palpable.  I’m assuming that the vast majority were still serving 5-years later in 1914.  Few of them will have survived, as 1st Battalion RWF was one of a number of units virtually wiped out and rebuilt several times quite early on, perhaps most significantly at Zanwoorde during First Ypres, when artillery fire and fierce fighting decimated the four service companies and both the officer commanding the battalion, Lieutenant Colonel Cadogan, and his adjutant, Captain Dooner were killed.

** in the later photo’s changed to the regimental colours of blue and cerise. 

NB.  One interesting aspect is that in 1905 1st RWF’s eight companies were numbered 1 to 8, rather than lettered A to H.  This was an old-school - and not uncommon arrangement - going back a long way.  Note also that almost every man in the 1909 photo has his arms heavily tattooed.

Edited 22 April by FROGSMILE

[Michelle Young]

What fabulous photos of those men, perhaps you may have sadly stopped by some of their graves. 

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, Michelle Young said:

What fabulous photos of those men, perhaps you may have sadly stopped by some of their graves. 

Yes, without knowing where they fell it was difficult to know unfortunately, but as you are aware I visited pretty much every one. 

Edited 20 April by FROGSMILE

[Michelle Young]

Fine looking men. 

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

Fine looking men. 

Their names are apparent in some cases, but unfortunately no regimental numbers.

[PRC]

As I know you’re aware, the 1911 edition of Hart’s Annual List shows the 1^st Battalion stationed at Dublin, meaning they will be recorded on the 1911 Census of Ireland with all the inherent difficulties that brings up – members of the armed forces are often only identified by initials, and the place of birth if it was not in Ireland is solely identified as a country.

The Battalion Commander, Lieutenant Colonnel Herbert Iggulden was recorded living with his family in the Royal Barracks at Arran Quay, Dublin. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Royal_Barracks/101239/

Major Henry Osbert Samuel Cadogan was living out with his family.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Fitzwilliam/Harcourt_Terrace/73574/

But a Colonel H.A.I. 1 R.W.F. also turns up on the Royal Barracks return.
The same page has:-
Major R.P. G. (Harts has a Captain & Adjutant Richard Edward Phillips Gabbett, 1^st Bn.)
Captain A. H. (Harts has a Captain Archibald Hay, 1^st Bn.)
Captain R.N. P. (Harts has a Captain Ralph Noel Phillips, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant W.B. G. (Harts has a Lieutenant William B. Garnett, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant L D’ A.  F. (Harts has a Lieutenant Leonard D’A. Fox, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant W I C  P.R.G. (Harts has a Lieutenant Wilfred Henry Cullen Percy-Knox-Gore, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant A.L. S (Harts has a Lieutenant Arthur Legge Samson, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant C.E. W (Harts has a Lieutenant Charles Edmund Wood, 1^st Bn.)
2^nd Lieutenant M.L. L.M. (Harts has a 2\Lt Morys L. Lloyd-Mostyn, 1^st Bn.)
2^nd Lieutenant M.I.H. A (Harts has a Maurice Ian Hamilton Anwyl, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant & Quartermaster E.A. P (Harts has an E.A. Parker, 1^st Bn.)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000107428/

Unfortunately then some 40 odd pages with other ranks, showing rank, initials, marital status, age, civilian occupation and a place of birth – mainly either England or Wales. There is also a few blanks http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Royal_Barracks/101216/

If you have some names, (particularly with less common initials!), it might be possible to track down the most likely individual on that census which might in turn throw up enough personal details to be able to make an informed search of army records.

And just wondering if the man identified as Lance Corporal J. Simkins in the 1905 picture might be this man in 1909.

No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owner.

A Corporal 8429 John William Simkins landed in France with the 2^nd Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers on the 11^th August 1914. Subsequently reached the rank of Lance Serjeant. (MiC and Medal Roll).

No obvious surviving service records.

Paul Nixons website shows the Regular Army Battalions of the Royal Welsh Fusilier issuing service number 8429 between the 18^th May 1904, (8061), and the 31^st January 1905, (8636).

8419 James Twigg attested Lichfield 16^th July 1904 while serving in a Militia Battalion of the South Staffordshire Regiment. He signed up for a short service enlistment split 3 years in the colours and 9 in the reserves. Despite a very poor disciplinary record he was obviously allowed to extend as he was still serving in 1909 when he was finally dishonourably discharged “with ignominy”.

8432 Ernest Hunt was an old soldier who transferred from the Norfolks to the Royal Welsh Fusiliers while stationed at Bareilly on the 1^st July 1904.

8433 Reginald Dootson attested Manchester 28^th July 1904, signing up for a short service enlistment split 3 years in the colours and 9 in the reserves. He reached the Depot at Wrexham the following day. After his initial training he was posted to the 1^st Battalion. On the 10^th August 1906 he extended his service to complete 9 years in the colours.

John Simkins was captured on the 31^st August 1914 near St. Quentin, serving with B Company, 2^nd Battalion RWF and initially held at Senne, then Dulmen and later Minden, Soltau and Hameln. He was wounded in the right foot at the time of capture. He was stated to have been born 14^th September 1879 at Wolverhampton, and in a report from 1917 his next of kin was given as his mother, living at 21 Beel Street, Wolverhampton. In a report received in Geneva on the 1^st May 1918 it was recorded that he had been transferred from Hameln via Aachen to Holland, where he was to remain interned for the rest of the war. Recorded with his surname spelt “Simpkins” he appears on a list of prisoners retained in Holland for duty, dated 25^th November 1918. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/3285722/3/2/

Looks like potentially a couple of Pension Ledger Cards.

May be a co-incidence, but the death of an 85 year old John W. Simkins was registered in the Wolverhampton District in the October to December quarter of 1966. No obvious probate calendar entry.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 20 April by PRC
Formatting

[FROGSMILE]

13 hours ago, PRC said:

As I know you’re aware, the 1911 edition of Hart’s Annual List shows the 1^st Battalion stationed at Dublin, meaning they will be recorded on the 1911 Census of Ireland with all the inherent difficulties that brings up – members of the armed forces are often only identified by initials, and the place of birth if it was not in Ireland is solely identified as a country.

The Battalion Commander, Lieutenant Colonnel Herbert Iggulden was recorded living with his family in the Royal Barracks at Arran Quay, Dublin. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Royal_Barracks/101239/

Major Henry Osbert Samuel Cadogan was living out with his family.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Fitzwilliam/Harcourt_Terrace/73574/

But a Colonel H.A.I. 1 R.W.F. also turns up on the Royal Barracks return.
The same page has:-
Major R.P. G. (Harts has a Captain & Adjutant Richard Edward Phillips Gabbett, 1^st Bn.)
Captain A. H. (Harts has a Captain Archibald Hay, 1^st Bn.)
Captain R.N. P. (Harts has a Captain Ralph Noel Phillips, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant W.B. G. (Harts has a Lieutenant William B. Garnett, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant L D’ A.  F. (Harts has a Lieutenant Leonard D’A. Fox, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant W I C  P.R.G. (Harts has a Lieutenant Wilfred Henry Cullen Percy-Knox-Gore, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant A.L. S (Harts has a Lieutenant Arthur Legge Samson, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant C.E. W (Harts has a Lieutenant Charles Edmund Wood, 1^st Bn.)
2^nd Lieutenant M.L. L.M. (Harts has a 2\Lt Morys L. Lloyd-Mostyn, 1^st Bn.)
2^nd Lieutenant M.I.H. A (Harts has a Maurice Ian Hamilton Anwyl, 1^st Bn.)
Lieutenant & Quartermaster E.A. P (Harts has an E.A. Parker, 1^st Bn.)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000107428/

Unfortunately then some 40 odd pages with other ranks, showing rank, initials, marital status, age, civilian occupation and a place of birth – mainly either England or Wales. There is also a few blanks http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Royal_Barracks/101216/

If you have some names, (particularly with less common initials!), it might be possible to track down the most likely individual on that census which might in turn throw up enough personal details to be able to make an informed search of army records.

And just wondering if the man identified as Lance Corporal J. Simkins in the 1905 picture might be this man in 1909.

No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owner.

A Corporal 8429 John William Simkins landed in France with the 2^nd Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers on the 11^th August 1914. Subsequently reached the rank of Lance Serjeant. (MiC and Medal Roll).

No obvious surviving service records.

Paul Nixons website shows the Regular Army Battalions of the Royal Welsh Fusilier issuing service number 8429 between the 18^th May 1904, (8061), and the 31^st January 1905, (8636).

8419 James Twigg attested Lichfield 16^th July 1904 while serving in a Militia Battalion of the South Staffordshire Regiment. He signed up for a short service enlistment split 3 years in the colours and 9 in the reserves. Despite a very poor disciplinary record he was obviously allowed to extend as he was still serving in 1909 when he was finally dishonourably discharged “with ignominy”.

8432 Ernest Hunt was an old soldier who transferred from the Norfolks to the Royal Welsh Fusiliers while stationed at Bareilly on the 1^st July 1904.

8433 Reginald Dootson attested Manchester 28^th July 1904, signing up for a short service enlistment split 3 years in the colours and 9 in the reserves. He reached the Depot at Wrexham the following day. After his initial training he was posted to the 1^st Battalion. On the 10^th August 1906 he extended his service to complete 9 years in the colours.

John Simkins was captured on the 31^st August 1914 near St. Quentin, serving with B Company, 2^nd Battalion RWF and initially held at Senne, then Dulmen and later Minden, Soltau and Hameln. He was wounded in the right foot at the time of capture. He was stated to have been born 14^th September 1879 at Wolverhampton, and in a report from 1917 his next of kin was given as his mother, living at 21 Beel Street, Wolverhampton. In a report received in Geneva on the 1^st May 1918 it was recorded that he had been transferred from Hameln via Aachen to Holland, where he was to remain interned for the rest of the war. Recorded with his surname spelt “Simpkins” he appears on a list of prisoners retained in Holland for duty, dated 25^th November 1918. https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/3285722/3/2/

Looks like potentially a couple of Pension Ledger Cards.

May be a co-incidence, but the death of an 85 year old John W. Simkins was registered in the Wolverhampton District in the October to December quarter of 1966. No obvious probate calendar entry.

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you for that interesting rundown Peter, it was kind of you to take the trouble to search all that information out.  It certainly seems likely that you’ve found the right Simkins, and I’m surprised that he appears to have survived the War(s) and into 1966 - I wonder if he saw the World Cup final!  I do think that you have matched him perfectly in the 1905 and 1909 photos.

It’s unfortunate that only the 1905 photo has names, as several of them might have been a little old to be still serving early in 1914, although as you’ve shown I imagine that most of the younger ones would have been engaged 3 and 9 and so probably recalled as regular reservists.  I imagine that Sergeant C Handley probably found himself involved in training assuming he was still fit, healthy and able.

P.S.  I’m afraid that I don’t have any other names beyond those shown on the bottom of the 1905 photo. 

Edited 21 April by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

11 hours ago, PRC said:

A Corporal 8429 John William Simkins landed in France with the 2^nd Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers on the 11^th August 1914. Subsequently reached the rank of Lance Serjeant. (MiC and Medal Roll).

I concur with your findings on John William Simkins Peter.

One more I found last night is a Pte W Morris RWF. William H Morris on his MIC. (Morris being a common name in North Wales 1700s onward.)

Listed as a Sgt on his MIC, entering France on 20-9-1914.

Number 8306 RWF. and 362520 Labour Corps.

There may be some more about him somewhere,just a matter of looking and time.

No apparent candidates on the CWGC site for any of the named soldiers, so a bonus.

Off out for lunch now so I will continue searching later.

Regards, Bob.

 

 

[PRC]

4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I wonder if he saw the World Cup final!

Funnily enough the same thought went through my head. Did he get a chance to join in the refrain of “two world wars and one world cup, doodah, doodah!”

Should have engaged brain fully last night– the 29 year old Lance Corporal John William Simkins, unmarried, born Wolverhampton, was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales at Roberts Barracks, Quetta, India, with the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

Looking at some of the other names from the 1905 photograph:-

If Lance Corporal E. Chamberlain still had a liability to serve in August 1914 and went on to serve overseas then looks like potentially a choice of two men, both of whom were likely have been in the colours in 1905.

MiC Private 8268 Ethelbert Chamberlain, 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers, first landed in France on the 13th August 1914. He was subsequently transferred to the Labour Corps on the 15th May 1917, (s\n 264989), with a unit shown on the MiC as 1st Labour Corps Bescot.

Paul Nixons’ website shows that RWF service number would have been issued between the 18th May 1904 (8061) and the 31st January 1905, (8636). As we’ve already seen with John Simkins the standard short service enlistment at that time was on a 3 and 9 split. Assuming that man was born in England & Wales there is a 25 year old Ethelbert Chamberlain, born Birmingham and a Labourer in a Rubber Works, who was recorded as the married head of the household at 6 Park Hill Place, Park Road, Aston Manor, Birmingham. Ethelbert had been married 3 years. None of that would have precluded him joining up in 1904 as he would most likely have been 18, done his three years in the colours and be out in time to have married and be an Army Reservist at the time of the Census.

According to the British Newspaper Archive there is a Pte. E. Chamberlain (8268) 2nd R. Welsh Fusiliers amongst a list of “100 Wounded British Heroes”, in the Dundee Evening Telegaph dated 3rd November 1914 but I can’t see the full articles nor could I find him in the Official Casualty List in The Times. He does however appear in a list of the Regiments wounded in the edition of The Times dated 31st December 1914. The same list has 14 members of the Regiment recorded as killed with the Expeditionary Force, including 8725 Lance Corporal E. Healey,(CWGC 2nd Bn died 26/10/14), 10172 Private W. Keepax,(CWGC 2nd Bn died 26/10/14), 2909 Sergeant E.T. Maunton,(CWGC 2nd Bn died 29/10/14), and 10496 Lance Corporal A.H. Thorman,(CWGC 2nd Bn died 30/10/14). All were originally buried in graves at La Cordonnerie Farm, (Map reference Sheet 36 N.10.a.8.4), part of a group of 58 men of the 2nd Battalion who died October/November 1914, subsequently moved in 1922 to Pont-Du-Hem Military Cemetery, La Gorgue, France.

May be a co-incidence but the death of a 72 year old Ethelbert Chamberlain was recorded in the Birmingham District in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1958.

MiC Private 5615 Edmund Chamberlain, D.C.M., 1st Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers,  first landed in France on the 2nd November 1914. He subsequently served as an Acting Sergeant with the Royal Engineers, (s\n 79628), from which he was honourably discharged, receiving the Silver War Badge.

He was serving with the 173rd Tunnelling Company as a Sergeant when he won his DCM – London Gazette 30th March 1916.”For conspicuous gallantry in organising with Sergeant Evans, rescue parties of their men after the explosion of an enemy mine, and rescuing, after three hours of work, in full view of the enemy, and under enfilade fire, many men who had been buried."

If that was a Regular Army service number then Paul Nixons’  website shows him enlisting between the 27th January 1898, (5548) and the 21st March 1899, (5980), so either effectively a long service man or a short service man who joined the Section D Reserve. No obvious surviving service records so his entry on the Silver War Badge Roll should be checked for date of enlistment in case he was a Special Reservist.

Not readily spotting him on the 1911 Census of England & Wales, but he could of course have been with the 1st Battalion in Dublin.

Also at the right hand end of the 1905 picture with Lance Corporals Simkins and Chamberlain is Private J. Beddows.

There is a MiC for a Private 8535 J. “Beddowes”, 1st Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, who first landed in France on the 12th September 1914. But this covers his 1914 Star only. The MiC for the Victory Medal and British War Medal for that service number is in the name of Serjeant John “Beddoes”.

Could be a co-incidence but there is a 25 year old Private John “Beddoes”, unmarried, born Cardiff, Glamorganshire, who was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales at Roberts Barracks, Quetta, India, with the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

He too appears to have survived the conflict although in a casualty list that appeared in the edition of The Times dated 8th February 1915 and quoting a report dated December 13th,  there is an 8535 Private J. “Beddowes” recorded amongst the very long of the missing of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

That list includes (as a small sample):-
10816 Private W. Arbon
11095 Lance Corporal F. Arbuthnot. ICRC  B Company, captured Ypres 29th October 1914.
10969 Lance Corporal J.A. Beeks  CWGC 1st Bn., died 30th October 1914, Ypres (Menin Gate Memorial).
10675 Corporal G.H. Blacktin
9360 Sergeant W. Boswell.  ICRC A Company, captured Ypres 30th October 1914.

Nothing obviously on CWGC or ICRC for Arbon, Blacktin or Beddows/Beddowes/Beddoes. I can only assume they were subsequently found to be not missing, although there is no obvious correcting entry in the Official Casualty Lists.

(ICRC- International Committee of the Red Cross).

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

Funnily enough the same thought went through my head. Did he get a chance to join in the refrain of “two world wars and one world cup, doodah, doodah!”

Should have engaged brain fully last night– the 29 year old Lance Corporal John William Simkins, unmarried, born Wolverhampton, was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales at Roberts Barracks, Quetta, India, with the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

Looking at some of the other names from the 1905 photograph:-

If Lance Corporal E. Chamberlain still had a liability to serve in August 1914 and went on to serve overseas then looks like potentially a choice of two men, both of whom were likely have been in the colours in 1905.

MiC Private 8268 Ethelbert Chamberlain, 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers, first landed in France on the 13th August 1914. He was subsequently transferred to the Labour Corps on the 15th May 1917, (s\n 264989), with a unit shown on the MiC as 1st Labour Corps Bescot.

Paul Nixons’ website shows that RWF service number would have been issued between the 18th May 1904 (8061) and the 31st January 1905, (8636). As we’ve already seen with John Simkins the standard short service enlistment at that time was on a 3 and 9 split. Assuming that man was born in England & Wales there is a 25 year old Ethelbert Chamberlain, born Birmingham and a Labourer in a Rubber Works, who was recorded as the married head of the household at 6 Park Hill Place, Park Road, Aston Manor, Birmingham. Ethelbert had been married 3 years. None of that would have precluded him joining up in 1904 as he would most likely have been 18, done his three years in the colours and be out in time to have married and be an Army Reservist at the time of the Census.

According to the British Newspaper Archive there is a Pte. E. Chamberlain (8268) 2nd R. Welsh Fusiliers amongst a list of “100 Wounded British Heroes”, in the Dundee Evening Telegaph dated 3rd November 1914 but I can’t see the full articles nor could I find him in the Official Casualty List in The Times. He does however appear in a list of the Regiments wounded in the edition of The Times dated 31st December 1914. The same list has 14 members of the Regiment recorded as killed with the Expeditionary Force, including 8725 Lance Corporal E. Healey,(CWGC 2nd Bn died 26/10/14), 10172 Private W. Keepax,(CWGC 2nd Bn died 26/10/14), 2909 Sergeant E.T. Maunton,(CWGC 2nd Bn died 29/10/14), and 10496 Lance Corporal A.H. Thorman,(CWGC 2nd Bn died 30/10/14). All were originally buried in graves at La Cordonnerie Farm, (Map reference Sheet 36 N.10.a.8.4), part of a group of 58 men of the 2nd Battalion who died October/November 1914, subsequently moved in 1922 to Pont-Du-Hem Military Cemetery, La Gorgue, France.

May be a co-incidence but the death of a 72 year old Ethelbert Chamberlain was recorded in the Birmingham District in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1958.

MiC Private 5615 Edmund Chamberlain, D.C.M., 1st Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers,  first landed in France on the 2nd November 1914. He subsequently served as an Acting Sergeant with the Royal Engineers, (s\n 79628), from which he was honourably discharged, receiving the Silver War Badge.

He was serving with the 173rd Tunnelling Company as a Sergeant when he won his DCM – London Gazette 30th March 1916.”For conspicuous gallantry in organising with Sergeant Evans, rescue parties of their men after the explosion of an enemy mine, and rescuing, after three hours of work, in full view of the enemy, and under enfilade fire, many men who had been buried."

If that was a Regular Army service number then Paul Nixons’  website shows him enlisting between the 27th January 1898, (5548) and the 21st March 1899, (5980), so either effectively a long service man or a short service man who joined the Section D Reserve. No obvious surviving service records so his entry on the Silver War Badge Roll should be checked for date of enlistment in case he was a Special Reservist.

Not readily spotting him on the 1911 Census of England & Wales, but he could of course have been with the 1st Battalion in Dublin.

Also at the right hand end of the 1905 picture with Lance Corporals Simkins and Chamberlain is Private J. Beddows.

There is a MiC for a Private 8535 J. “Beddowes”, 1st Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, who first landed in France on the 12th September 1914. But this covers his 1914 Star only. The MiC for the Victory Medal and British War Medal for that service number is in the name of Serjeant John “Beddoes”.

Could be a co-incidence but there is a 25 year old Private John “Beddoes”, unmarried, born Cardiff, Glamorganshire, who was recorded on the 1911 Census of England & Wales at Roberts Barracks, Quetta, India, with the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

He too appears to have survived the conflict although in a casualty list that appeared in the edition of The Times dated 8th February 1915 and quoting a report dated December 13th,  there is an 8535 Private J. “Beddowes” recorded amongst the very long of the missing of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

That list includes (as a small sample):-
10816 Private W. Arbon
11095 Lance Corporal F. Arbuthnot. ICRC  B Company, captured Ypres 29th October 1914.
10969 Lance Corporal J.A. Beeks  CWGC 1st Bn., died 30th October 1914, Ypres (Menin Gate Memorial).
10675 Corporal G.H. Blacktin
9360 Sergeant W. Boswell.  ICRC A Company, captured Ypres 30th October 1914.

Nothing obviously on CWGC or ICRC for Arbon, Blacktin or Beddows/Beddowes/Beddoes. I can only assume they were subsequently found to be not missing, although there is no obvious correcting entry in the Official Casualty Lists.

(ICRC- International Committee of the Red Cross).

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you again for that extraordinary detective work Peter, it’s always uplifting to see these men’s lives brought to light a little from photos over a century old.

 I imagine that Chamberlain was probably known to the famous Pte Frank Richards, who would have probably seen him as an old sweat given his service with both regular battalions.  The 2nd Battalion fared better in the first two years of the war, as you probably know, but things caught up with them by 1917.

Like Simpkins, Beddoes was a midlander and interestingly that chimes with comments from Pte Richards about the 2nd Battalion having a disproportionate number of ‘Birmingham men’ in its ranks.  I hope that you’re right and that like with Robert Graves the reports of Beddoes being missing were premature, or grossly exaggerated.

Your account of the tunneller Chamberlain struck a real chord with me, as during my foray around the Pas-de-Calais and Somme I visited the site of the ‘Red Dragon crater’, where a company of 2nd RWF was almost completely wiped out** in a single mine explosion and a section of RE tunnellers entombed.  After a huge effort to dig down and rescue the latter, all but two got out, but one sapper stayed with his attached infantryman comrade, who was wounded and incapacitated, thereby earning for himself a well deserved, but sadly posthumous Victoria Cross.  The injured man was from the Welsh Regiment (maybe a former miner) and like Chamberlain might well perhaps have eventually transferred had he lived.  Quite a number of infantrymen did transfer across after a period of attachment.

** “B Company alone lost 54 men.  Some of these had been buried in the explosion.  In 1926 a farmer found the remains of some of them.  Four of them were found together in a dug-out near the edge of the crater.  Lance Corporal Thomas Williams from Anglesey was identified by his pay book and letters in his pocket.  Fred Vale from Birmingham was identified by his pay book and his disc.  Bert Price from Newbridge on Wye had a pair of wire cutters with his name of the handle.  James Wyllie, the youngest of the group at 19 had his pay book, a diary and some letters from home.  They are buried side by side in Cabaret Rouge Cemetery.”

“Two officers were also found.  2nd Lieutenant Trevor Allington Crosland had a gold disc.  On the reverse side the words ‘Good Luck’ were engraved.  He had a gold match case with his initials, TAC, the date 19 March 1916 and the words ‘Good Luck from Jack’.  He had only been in France for six weeks when he met his death.  The farmer also found the remains of Captain Owen Price-Edwards who was identified by his disc.  Both officers are also buried in Cabaret Rouge Cemetery.”

Edited 21 April by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

Sergeant C. Handley (Trainer)

On the 1901 Census of England & Wales there is a 29 year old Lance Corporal Charles Handley, born Llandaff, Glamorganshire, who was serving with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers  and recorded in married quarters at the Regimental Depot at Wrexham. Living with him is his wife Minnie Handley, aged 22 and also born Llandaff.

The marriage of a Charles John Handley to a Minnie Streeter was recorded in the Cardiff District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1901.

By the time of the 1911 Census of England & Wales the married Sergeant Charles Handley, age 40, born Llandaff, was recorded in the barracks. He was on the Staff of the Depot, Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

The 33 year old Minnie Handley was recorded living in married quarters at Wrexham. She states she has been married 10 years, and the union has produced six children, of which five were then still alive. The birthplaces of the children provide a roll-call of the postings of father Charles as well as placing him in Aldershot in the middle of the intervening decade.

Charles Handley………aged 9…….born Wrexham, Denbighshire
William Handley……..aged 8……..born Wrexham, Denbighshire
Florence Handley……aged 5……..born Aldershot, Hampshire
Lilian Handley……….aged 3……..born Cork
Arthur Handley………aged 1…….born Cork

There are burnt series records for a 5202 Charles Handley, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, who was born Llandaff and resident Wrexham. It looks like they came to an end in 1913 when he was then aged 44. It may be a coincidence but there are also burnt series records for a Charles Handley, aged 46, who enlisted with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers in 1914. He was born Llandaff and resident Wrexham. His service number was 14193. Someone with subscription access to Ancestry \ Fold3 \FindMyPast will hopefully be able to find out more.

The MiC for that later service number shows a Warrant Officer Class II who qualified for the British War Medal only.

A Charles John Handley, born Llandaff c1868 was recorded living in the parish of Hope, Hawarden, Flintshire on the 1921 Census of England & Wales. Living with him were:-
Arthur Davis Handley, born Cork c1910
Charlotte(?) Edward Handley, born Wrexham c1902
Florence Mary Handley, born Hampshire c1905
George Francis Handley, born Flintshire c1921
Lillian May Handley, born Cork c1908
Marion Handley, born Flintshire c1914
Minnie Handley, born Llandaff c1879
William John Handley, born Wrexham c1903.
More details will be available via subscription \ purchase.

May be a co-incidence but the death of a 56 year old Charles John Handley was registered in the Hawarden District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1924. The 1924 Probate Calendar records that Charles John Handley, of 13 Hawarden Road, Hope Village, Wrexham, Denbighshire, died on the 23rd January 1924. Probate was granted to Minnie Handley, widow.

Although resident at Hope it looks from the parish register that Charles was buried at Llandaff. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFH4-9SD

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

15 hours ago, PRC said:

Sergeant C. Handley (Trainer)

On the 1901 Census of England & Wales there is a 29 year old Lance Corporal Charles Handley, born Llandaff, Glamorganshire, who was serving with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers  and recorded in married quarters at the Regimental Depot at Wrexham. Living with him is his wife Minnie Handley, aged 22 and also born Llandaff.

The marriage of a Charles John Handley to a Minnie Streeter was recorded in the Cardiff District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1901.

By the time of the 1911 Census of England & Wales the married Sergeant Charles Handley, age 40, born Llandaff, was recorded in the barracks. He was on the Staff of the Depot, Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

The 33 year old Minnie Handley was recorded living in married quarters at Wrexham. She states she has been married 10 years, and the union has produced six children, of which five were then still alive. The birthplaces of the children provide a roll-call of the postings of father Charles as well as placing him in Aldershot in the middle of the intervening decade.

Charles Handley………aged 9…….born Wrexham, Denbighshire
William Handley……..aged 8……..born Wrexham, Denbighshire
Florence Handley……aged 5……..born Aldershot, Hampshire
Lilian Handley……….aged 3……..born Cork
Arthur Handley………aged 1…….born Cork

There are burnt series records for a 5202 Charles Handley, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, who was born Llandaff and resident Wrexham. It looks like they came to an end in 1913 when he was then aged 44. It may be a coincidence but there are also burnt series records for a Charles Handley, aged 46, who enlisted with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers in 1914. He was born Llandaff and resident Wrexham. His service number was 14193. Someone with subscription access to Ancestry \ Fold3 \FindMyPast will hopefully be able to find out more.

The MiC for that later service number shows a Warrant Officer Class II who qualified for the British War Medal only.

A Charles John Handley, born Llandaff c1868 was recorded living in the parish of Hope, Hawarden, Flintshire on the 1921 Census of England & Wales. Living with him were:-
Arthur Davis Handley, born Cork c1910
Charlotte(?) Edward Handley, born Wrexham c1902
Florence Mary Handley, born Hampshire c1905
George Francis Handley, born Flintshire c1921
Lillian May Handley, born Cork c1908
Marion Handley, born Flintshire c1914
Minnie Handley, born Llandaff c1879
William John Handley, born Wrexham c1903.
More details will be available via subscription \ purchase.

May be a co-incidence but the death of a 56 year old Charles John Handley was registered in the Hawarden District in the January to March quarter, (Q1), of 1924. The 1924 Probate Calendar records that Charles John Handley, of 13 Hawarden Road, Hope Village, Wrexham, Denbighshire, died on the 23rd January 1924. Probate was granted to Minnie Handley, widow.

Although resident at Hope it looks from the parish register that Charles was buried at Llandaff. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFH4-9SD

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you for these details about Sergeant Handley, Peter, I rather hoped it might be possible to learn of his fate.  It’s interesting to see that he and his wife typically had children born in a variety of garrisons and lived in married quarters.  It shows how even between the Boer War and WW1 the sustenance of married soldiers and their families was a serious undertaking for the War Office.  Most of the newer married quarters comprised just two large rooms with an outdoor privy.  Others were formed by giving up a barracks block and sectioning the large rooms.  Because of battalion roulement moves children had the opportunity to travel that few other working class children would experience.  It was as I expected that he immediately reenlisted in 1914 despite his reserve obligation being expired,  quite something for a man with wife and several dependent children still at home.  He clearly did his bit on the home establishment given his MIC and its rather sad that he didn’t live beyond 1924 given his commitment to his country.  I hope that his wife Minnie lived long enough to enjoy a healthy retirement with her offspring and, no doubt, some grandchildren.

Edited 22 April by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

16 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

He clearly did his bit on the home establishment given his MIC

The British War Medal would indicate he served overseas but not in a Theatre of War, so Garrison duties. I suspect that is probably the 1st Garrison Battalion in Gibraltar, but someone with access to those service records or the medal roll on Ancestry will hopefully be able to confirm that.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

On 22/04/2024 at 10:00, PRC said:

I suspect that is probably the 1st Garrison Battalion in Gibraltar

Yes that does makes sense and seems the most likely scenario.  The medal aspect I should of course have realised, but in truth it had slipped my mind.

Edited 24 April by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

7 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes that does makes sense and seems the most likely scenario. 

Hi Frogsmile,

 I tried to send you a P.M, but it said you can't receive messages; perhaps your inbox needs weeding.

[FROGSMILE]

30 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Hi Frogsmile,

 I tried to send you a P.M, but it said you can't receive messages; perhaps your inbox needs weeding.

I’m sorry yes I’ve had a flurry this last week.  I will weed and get back to you.  

[Ron da Valli]

Here's a photo from 1905. 1st Battalion gymnastic team. They were placed 2nd in the Assault At Arms Competition at Meerut, India. On the back row, 4th from left is lance sergeant Alfred Henry Clarke. He was a gymnastic instructor. He was killed in action on the 30th October 1914. 

 

[FROGSMILE]

30 minutes ago, Ron da Valli said:

Here's a photo from 1905. 1st Battalion gymnastic team. They were placed 2nd in the Assault At Arms Competition at Meerut, India. On the back row, 4th from left is lance sergeant Alfred Henry Clarke. He was a gymnastic instructor. He was killed in action on the 30th October 1914. 

 

Fantastic photo and information Ron and thank you for adding to the thread.  It’s really interesting to see the typical equipment of Indian clubs, hand weights, epees/foils, wooden sabres and face/chest guards, laid out in front of the team, who this time are wearing the summer dress of white trousers with their APTI style vests. I wonder what the two painted Pierrot clowns part in the proceedings were!  Probably a clowns tumbling act to bring some humour to the regimental display on competition day.

Edited 22 April by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

Hi Frogsmile,

 I tried to send you a P.M, but it said you can't receive messages; perhaps your inbox needs weeding.

I’ve deleted half a dozen threads so hopefully should be okay now. 

[Bob Davies]

On 21/04/2024 at 18:08, PRC said:

There are burnt series records for a 5202 Charles Handley, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, who was born Llandaff and resident Wrexham. It looks like they came to an end in 1913 when he was then aged 44. It may be a coincidence but there are also burnt series records for a Charles Handley, aged 46, who enlisted with the Royal Welsh Fusiliers in 1914. He was born Llandaff and resident Wrexham. His service number was 14193. Someone with subscription access to Ancestry \ Fold3 \FindMyPast will hopefully be able to find out more.

A bit more for 5202 Charles Handley. Screenshots courtesy of FOLD 3.

 

 

From Ancestry, I am unable to take a screenshot and my phone camera is not any good for this detailed sort of picture.

14193 C.S.M. Handley. Charles  (1st Garr) R.W.Fus.

                                                      14193 W.O. Cl.ii.

The above is what is typed on to his British War Medal Roll. Victory Medal has been blacked out with over typing.

Stamped,  Shrewsbury 27th March 1920.

Well discovered Peter.

Absolute cracking pictures @FROGSMILE, thanks for sharing them with us.

Regards, Bob Edit, for some reason the pages I screenshotted do not sit next to each other, they are from the same ledger book for 5202 Charles Handley.

[Bob Davies]

1 hour ago, Ron da Valli said:

Here's a photo from 1905. 1st Battalion gymnastic team. They were placed 2nd in the Assault At Arms Competition at Meerut, India. On the back row, 4th from left is lance sergeant Alfred Henry Clarke. He was a gymnastic instructor. He was killed in action on the 30th October 1914

They are fantastic pictures Ron, thanks for sharing them.

Alfred Henry Clarke regimental number 6253

Here is a screenshot of his pension card courtesy of FOLD 3.

He enlisted at Wrexham 28th Dec 1899.

promoted to Cpl 15 Aug 1906.

Transferred to the reserve 13 Jan 1908.

His records survive though a little ragged.

He spent 5 years and 69 days in India.

Appointed acting sergeant 24 Aug 1914.

Alfred Henry Clarke is remembered on the Menin Gate, Ypres.

[Ron da Valli]

Alfred Henry Clarke was born in Coventry in 1883. He enlisted when he was 16 but declared he was 18. He was an electric crane driver at Courtalds. He married Florence Barker in 1909.

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, Ron da Valli said:

Alfred Henry Clarke was born in Coventry in 1883. He enlisted when he was 16 but declared he was 18. He was an electric crane driver at Courtalds. He married Florence Barker in 1909.

Yet another midlander Ron.  It’s been really interesting to learn about these men.  My thanks to all of you detectives. 

Edited 22 April by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

Those who want even more in-depth on 2nd RWF in the Great War might care to look for a copy of

Duty Done; 2nd Battalion Royal Welch Fusiliers in the Great War.

This is not a sales pitch, just for enthusiasts.

I regret that there is no comparable 1st Battalion account yet.

 

 

[Ron da Valli]

19 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Those who want even more in-depth on 2nd RWF in the Great War might care to look for a copy of

Duty Done; 2nd Battalion Royal Welch Fusiliers in the Great War.

This is not a sales pitch, just for enthusiasts.

I regret that there is no comparable 1st Battalion account yet.

 

 

I have a copy of that book. I can highly recommend it.