Perth Digger Posted 18 April Share Posted 18 April On the Casualty Card in the Vault archives relating to the accidental death in a collision of Lt Allan Gladstone Dow on 17 August 1917, the name of the pilot of the other aircraft is given as 2nd Lt J or T (?). H. Timmins. He survived. I cannot find any more evidence on-line about this pilot. I'd be grateful for any suggestions as to who he was and what happened to him. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 18 April Admin Share Posted 18 April I suspect it might be this man Thomas Henry Timmis / Timmins as per FMP (Different name on each page) British Royal Air Force, Officers' Service Records 1912-1920 Image | findmypast.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 18 April Admin Share Posted 18 April TNA also appears to miss index him as Timmis Name Timmis, Thomas Henry Date of Birth: 26 April 1894 | The National Archives although clearly Timmins on at least one of the pages. FMP Newspapers suggest he went on to be involved in a Blacksmiths business post war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 18 April Author Share Posted 18 April Many thanks, David, he looks a likely candidate. He first became Temp 2nd Lt on Probation in May 1917, so he was around in August 1917. But there is no Casualty Card for him in Vault, although the other pilot was hospitalised. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 18 April Admin Share Posted 18 April I thought I saw a card under Timmis? Nothing on it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawhiri Posted 18 April Share Posted 18 April There is a casualty card for a J.H. Timmis serving with 66 Squadron, dated 9 November 1918, which simply states that he was discharged to duty. This looks to be your T.H. Timmis, and looking at his associated casualty form it appears to relate to his hospitalization with influenza. https://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/timmis-j.h https://www.casualtyforms.org/form/24468 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 19 April Author Share Posted 19 April Thanks, Tawhiri. Yes, I'd seen that, but I meant there was no collision Casualty Card for a Timmis. I've also noticed that in R. Cawsey's accident list on-line the pilot is named as Lt Tanmer (Tanner?). No initials. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 19 April Admin Share Posted 19 April No record of Tanmer on FMP and looking at the RAF Officer records there no Tanners with accident records in their files - only a couple with 1917 service with RFC recorded and they can all be ruled out as either overseas or medically unfit in August 1917. Decided to look at newspapers and after some wasted time realised best way to go about it was to look for articles concerning Lt Dow (all courtesy FMP): Leicester Evening Mail 25 August 1917 The Scotsman 27 August 1917 (other pilot not named) Derby Daily Telegraph 28 August 1917 Cambridge Daily News 27 August 1917 Lieutenant Dow's RAF (sic) record merely states "Drowned Aero Accident" whilst at 63 Training Squadron - so if there are any records extant of that unit... There is this but it isn't digitised yet Miscellaneous correspondence: War Office enquiries accidents to R.F.C. officers. | The National Archives which covers the period August 1917. Tangentially not been able to identify Major R F Maxwell and also checked Canadian records for Dow just in case but came up blank. One wonders why the other pilot wasn't named at the inquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 19 April Author Share Posted 19 April Thanks for taking the time and making the effort, David. One day we might find that the pilot's name was Entwhistle! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 19 April Admin Share Posted 19 April I'm not planning to go through all the casualty cards in the Vault Mike as that may take a tad more time than the remaining IPL matches have left. However, matching the date with a card could prove to be a winner. I am surprised there wasn't an official inquiry but perhaps it is in that file at TNA I mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 19 April Admin Share Posted 19 April Looking on Ancestry for a change and there are TWO records for Thomas Henry Timmis re RFC / RAF. The one I posted above had him at 63 TS in 1918 not 1917. This is the other one. I am presuming they are the same man - this one refers to him as a cadet but again not joining 63TS until 1918. (Courtesy Ancestry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 19 April Author Share Posted 19 April Thanks, David, I'd just seen that myself. Looking at all the materials you and others have supplied me on here it looks pretty firm to me that T.H. Timmis is my man. The following problems remain: the absence of any details between May 1917 and February 1918 (no proof that this long absence was owing to the collision in August); and the fact that he was with 31 RS, which was based at Wyton near St Ives, Cambridgeshire. I suppose he could have flown to the Thames, but it's about 75 miles. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 19 April Admin Share Posted 19 April What got me was the pilot who survived was "spiralling upwards" - I wonder if it may be worth asking if anyone going to TNA soon might copy or at least take a look in here for 17th August? Miscellaneous correspondence: War Office enquiries accidents to R.F.C. officers. | The National Archives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 19 April Admin Share Posted 19 April I wonder if R F Maxwell was a misheard R S Maxwell? (courtesy FMP) Cannot however connect him to 63 TS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickdavis Posted 21 April Share Posted 21 April RS Maxwell was OC 63 TS at the time - scan attached from the logbook of HVL Tubbs, signed off by Maxwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickdavis Posted 21 April Share Posted 21 April Whoops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 April Admin Share Posted 21 April Thanks Mick for confirming that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 21 April Author Share Posted 21 April Thanks Mick and David for the extra information. David, by August 1917 most Casualty Cards were recording whether or not accidents were being passed on to the "Accident Committee" in London. This committee was not a Court of Inquiry. But you will know much more about RFC bureaucracy than me. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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