kevin donaldson Posted 12 April Share Posted 12 April Hello folks hope I’ve got this in the right section, I have in my possession a death penny or death plaque named to a Louis witty and im struggling to gather any information regarding him. Could anybody help to try and unlock the mystery of this chap please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 12 April Share Posted 12 April Quite possibly this man here A quick genealogy search reveals his name was known as Louis Witty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin donaldson Posted 12 April Author Share Posted 12 April Thanks for the reply, when I checked the CWGC no exact search, but I checked the name on google and a Canadian came up with the exact name, but no detail on his death. Could this be a possibility also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 12 April Share Posted 12 April (edited) This could be your man - - Library and Archives Canada (bac-lac.gc.ca) When the page comes up click on this link for his CEF Service Record...... B10515-S047 Edited 12 April by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin donaldson Posted 12 April Author Share Posted 12 April Thanks fir your reply, yes that’s the guy that I came across, but I could not find any link or record to his death, but in fairness I really wouldn’t know where to start with commonwealth soldiers Thanks Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 12 April Share Posted 12 April IF a CEF soldier died, or was killed in action, or died of wounds it would be recorded in his service papers & also it would indicate if either/or a Memorial Plaque & Mothers Cross was issued to either his mother &/or wife (if he had either still living). The pages are really small & hard to read, so I did not attempt to read them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 12 April Share Posted 12 April Looking at the Canadian’s record and he’s not the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 12 April Share Posted 12 April It looks as though the man identified earlier by jaydubaya is the only L. Witty on the CWGC database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April (edited) 11 hours ago, jay dubaya said: Quite possibly this man here A quick genealogy search reveals his name was known as Louis Witty https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/3048201/james-lewis-witty/ I agree this this is the only possible candidate. His birth (Witt) and census records list him as Louis: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/30188490:7814 Prev naval service 1890-91 as Louis Witt: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/549890:60522 His marriage to Georgina 4 Dec 1894 records him as Louis: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/32039814:8913 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/935482:9852 Pension card 'Louis': https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/21554892:61588 Naval death register & probate confirm Georgina was his wife (Ancestry): Edited 13 April by Ivor Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April (edited) Full WW1 naval service record (b. 4 Apr 1871) at TNA (can be viewed in preview setting): https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8501333 Edited 13 April by Ivor Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin donaldson Posted 13 April Author Share Posted 13 April Much appreciated gents for the speedy replies, is it normal for a death penny to have a difference in name or a misspelling on the plaque to the actual person? It’s been a bit of a tricky one this. Thanks again Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April (edited) If the death penny was issued to his widow Georgina I suspect she requested the name she new him by - the man she married? His naval record at TNA shows his wife's name as Georgina Witty. 'James Lewis Witty' only appears from his reenlistment: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8501333 Edited 13 April by Ivor Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April There is a file on his service record as Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April 54 minutes ago, Ivor Anderson said: If the death penny was issued to his widow Georgina I suspect she requested the name she new him by - the man she married? I don't think it possible that his widow would have any input. The information would be gathered from service records and the name by which he served. The first thing the widow would know about it would be when the plaque was delivered in the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April From the Newcastle Journal, 6h March 1918 (courtesy of Find My Past) -- note that the name is reported as James Lewins Witty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April From WFA/Fold3: Widow's dependant's pension claim pension index card awarded in the name of James Louis WITTY, 1602 D, Royal Naval Reserve [my underline though Louis seems potentially a later strike-through and correction of letter C/addition] - Lost his life when vessel in which he was serving was sunk by the enemy M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April Royal Navy Registers of Seaman's Services has the same man named as Louis Witt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April (edited) 44 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: Royal Navy Registers of Seaman's Services has the same man named as Louis Witt Served as a stoker for one year and then deserted (RUN) in May 1891 and was not recovered. That would explain why he enrolled as a seaman in the RNR five years later (27 Apr 1896) under an alias as James Lewis WITTY. Edited 13 April by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April (edited) From 1919 into the 1920s the British Army records offices sent out forms to the named next of kin in a deceased soldier's Service Record. This form was called Army Form W.5080. On one side of the form there was the handwritten address of the next of kin to whom it had been sent, a prepaid printed return address and printed instructions on how to fold the form and seal it for its return. Also on this side of the form the following text was printed to the addressee: “In order that I may be enabled to dispose of the plaque and scroll in commemoration of the soldier named overleaf in accordance with ths wishes of His Majesty the King, I have to request that the requisite information regarding the soldier's relatives now living may be furnished on the form overleaf in strict accordance with the instructions printed thereon. The declaration thereon should be signed in your own handwriting and the form should be returned to me when certified by a Minister or Magistrate.” On the reverse of the Army Form W.5080 the officer in charge of records had completed the soldier's details at the top of the form. The next of kin then had to complete details for widow, children, father, mother, full blood and half blood brothers and sisters, sign and date the form. The form was then to be counter-signed and dated by a minister or magistrate as a declaration of the true statement of the information provided. I can see no other potential candidate for Louis Witty, given the above it is possible his widow amended his name prior to returning the form. Would be interesting to know where the OP is based and any known history of the piece. Edited 13 April by jay dubaya added text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April 2 hours ago, jay dubaya said: Royal Navy Registers of Seaman's Services has the same man named as Louis Witt A public tree on Ancestry shows his father as Ludwig Friedrich Johann Heinrich WITT (image courtesy of Ancestry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April 12 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said: His marriage to Georgina 4 Dec 1894 records him as Louis: Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Dec 1894 (>99%) Debnam Georgina S. Shields 10a 1139 Witty Louis S. Shields 10a 1139 Courtesy of FreeBMD Louis WITTY seems to have been used and seems likely what his wife/widow knew him by [rather looks like he had left WITT behind him - perhaps not that surprising if he had 'run' from the Navy]. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April (edited) My maths teacher used to say: 'I hear your Dad's a bit of a wit; pity you're only half the man he is'. All the circumstantial evidence points to this being the right man. Born Louis Witt in 1871: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/61519190:8912?tid=&pid=&queryId=e7427cf4-0087-41bc-83e9-85a34382d05e&_phsrc=qzF16699&_phstart=successSource Louis Witt on 1881 census: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/26206474:7572 Father Ludwig was 'Louis' by 1881. Changed his name to Witty after deserting in 1891. Married as Louis Witty in 1894 and on 1901 census as such. Edited 13 April by Ivor Anderson Additional Info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin donaldson Posted 14 April Author Share Posted 14 April I would just like to thank everybody who helped and took the time to research this thread, without your help this would have been another plaque. Im going to print out all the relevant paperwork and its my way of keeping this mans memory alive. Thanks again Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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