MikeW Posted 10 April Share Posted 10 April I have an RNAS reconnaissance flight in January 1917 reporting that the Schuddebeurs Battery in the Netherlands was "active". Schuddebeurs is fairly near the border with occupied Belgium, but did the Netherlands have defensive Anti Aircraft batteries, and who did they fire at? Both German and Allied aircraft presumably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted 15 April Author Share Posted 15 April On the off chance that anyone is interested, the Netherlands did indeed fire "warning shots" (at least) at any Allied or German Aircraft caught flying over the Netherlands Neutral airspace - the practice of which was strictly against RNAS regulations at least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 15 April Share Posted 15 April 46 minutes ago, MikeW said: the practice of which was strictly against RNAS regulations at least! Gosh! That was risky of the Netherlands . 48 minutes ago, MikeW said: at any Allied or German Aircraft caught flying over the I mean doing this was risking repercussions from both sides against them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 15 April Share Posted 15 April When you consider the number of both German and Allied planes that ended up in Switzerland during WWII, then there must have been others from both that landed in Holland, after getting off course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 15 April Share Posted 15 April 8 minutes ago, stevenbecker said: ended up in Switzerland during WWII Interesting . But did they all get fired at by the Swiss in Ww2? A scene ....an Allied pilot and a German pilot meet after both land in same field in the Netherlands in WW1. Who fires on the other one first ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 15 April Share Posted 15 April What do you do in a neutral country with pilots from either side ?you cannot aid / assist/ harbour them and risk attack from opposing side against you . So you fire at all planes to discourage them from landing. All makes sense now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted 15 April Author Share Posted 15 April I think with regards to the RNAS, it was to discourage the use of neutral airspace to get a look at Antwerp which was heavily defended. What was done with the pilots that came down in the Netherlands was to intern them. Aircraft were purchased from their owners and often pressed into service with the Netherlands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 16 April Share Posted 16 April Of cause the Swiss recieved a number of fighters (BF 109's) during WWII because the Germans wanted something (I forget) from them I have not heard of them shooting at anyone, but I would not put it passed them. Likely during WWI they must have picked up a few planes from the Germans and French who strayed. Likely Holland also picked up a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted 16 April Author Share Posted 16 April just for interest, here is an "interned" Nieuport 11 that belonged to Naval 6 (FSL Powles) that suffered damage and made a forced landing in the Netherlands on the 26th Feb 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 22 April Share Posted 22 April Hello, this place (Schuddebeurze) was near the frontline in WW1, close to Nieuwpoort and Lombardsijde. regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 22 April Share Posted 22 April 20 minutes ago, Cnock said: close to Nieuwpoort and Lombardsijde. Ah ! Thank you Cnock. Then this makes sense 100% to our research into RNAS 2 doesn't it @MikeW These pilots were crossing the frontline around that point very often if not almost daily ( weather permitting) This map is from a thread on the forum and really sorry I cannot recall who had posted it here . Lombardsijde.is in there somewhere I believe . Cheers Fiona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 22 April Share Posted 22 April The Schuddeburze on Your map. British artillery map, July 1917. You can clearly see positins of the guns at Schuddebeurze. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 22 April Share Posted 22 April Schuddebeurze is located east of Lombardzijde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 22 April Share Posted 22 April 13 minutes ago, Cnock said: Hope this helps It does indeed! Thank you so much . Fancy flying over/ near/ past that lot of guns ...... The guns must have been well supported on concrete coz the land was so saturated with seawater from the Yser inundations if not actually flooded there My great little reprint of 1919 Michelin Guide " The Yser " tells me " the liveliest part of the sector was that in front of Nieuport ". Of course for the port and turning off the flood water gates too I imagine. Photos copyright Michellin originally. This copy published by G.H.Smith and Sons, York ( online store) £9 very well spent ! Exceptional photos in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted 22 April Author Share Posted 22 April Hello Eddy, long time no speak! Hope you are well. I may be getting confused here, In Cross and Cockade Vol 6 iss 2, FSL LH Pearson recounts that when reconnaissance's had to take a look at Antwerp it was much safer (but totally against regulations) to come round the coast and then down the Scheldt - he says he was fired upon by the Netherlands but felt it was "more in protest than anger". Schuddebeurs in the Netherlands would appear to be quite close to this route. I agree your Scuddebeurze near Nieuport could have been the location referred to in my report (not by Pearson), but I have reports mentioning Schuddebeurze Battery as well as a report referring to Schuddebeurs - this could be a typo, but Observers were usually pretty good with place names. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 22 April Share Posted 22 April Hello Mike, Yes, doing well for the moment. I know that British bomberplanes went along the Belgian coast to the Scheldt estuary (on Dutch soil) and followed the Scheldt to drop bombs over Gent. But they were always fired upon by long range Flak posted along the Belgian coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 23 April Share Posted 23 April De Schuddebeurze was on higher ground, complete with trenches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted Thursday at 12:55 Share Posted Thursday at 12:55 (edited) On 23/04/2024 at 08:40, Cnock said: De Schuddebeurze was on higher ground, complete with trenches Thank you again Gnock . these are terrific maps and they help me imagine what my grandfather saw when he was flying over there in late 1917 to Spring 1918. Edited Thursday at 12:57 by FionaBam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted Thursday at 13:59 Share Posted Thursday at 13:59 glad to help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils d Posted Saturday at 11:41 Share Posted Saturday at 11:41 On 15/04/2024 at 16:42, MikeW said: On the off chance that anyone is interested, the Netherlands did indeed fire "warning shots" (at least) at any Allied or German Aircraft caught flying over the Netherlands Neutral airspace - the practice of which was strictly against RNAS regulations at least! There's a report of a Gotha being shot down by Dutch guards at Beerta (?) on 18/4/17 and was set on fire by its three man crew. On the same date Dutch Sgt Lok shot down a German plane with a machine gun at Groningen. The two cases may linked. In November 1917 a German "Parseval balloon" was shot down at Amersfoort . So there were some shots that were more than just warning ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted Saturday at 12:11 Author Share Posted Saturday at 12:11 Wow, thanks Nils d. That's very intriguing. It took a lot to shoot a Gotha down. Perhaps Cnock can confirm the Beerta location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted Saturday at 12:56 Share Posted Saturday at 12:56 Hi, I have in my files 2 Gotha GIV shot down over Holland on 18 August 1917, and not 18 April 1917. Gotha 1055/16 landed at Beetra (not Beerta) and was salvaged. Gotha G IV nr 1059/16 came down at Oude Pekela near Groningen, and was set on fire by the crew. Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted Saturday at 17:12 Author Share Posted Saturday at 17:12 Thanks Eddy, this all helps paint a good picture of the risks of venturing over neutral territory! Do you have any information on where the AA guns were based that brought the Gothas' down? I assume both crews were interned for at least a part of the war? Any idea how the authorities keep interned crews from opposing sides apart? My understanding was the internees were given a fair amount of freedom, I have one Canadian being allowed to return to Canada. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted Saturday at 17:33 Share Posted Saturday at 17:33 Hello Mike, glad I could help. I have no info about postions of Flak guns, or internees. Eddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted Saturday at 17:43 Author Share Posted Saturday at 17:43 Ok no worries Eddy, you have been very helpful. All these new avenues of research that keep opening up! I must say I quite like the idea of a visit to the Netherlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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