Seeking information about an original ANZAC

[Random guy]

Hello all,

I am seeking information on a lad who landed in Gallipoli on April 25th 1915, Private Henry Charles De Graaff who is my great great great uncle. I was reviewing his service record where I found he was Submitted to Hospital on May 4th 1915 (G.S.W Back) and was at a field hospital in Valetta Now I assumed he had been wounded on May 4th and evacuated because that’s what it said on his causality record, but I find in his service record that the date of casualty was 25.4.15? But that’s the only page that says it was on the landings. Any information you find will be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Random

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

A lot of dates around that time appear to only show when they arrived at a hosp from the ship, not the date wounded.

I have many LH men shown that way that I had to sort out

HULL    Bertram Arthur Francis    86    Cpl    11 LHR    A Sqn att DSqn/02 LHR 8-15 WIA 13-12-15 R/thigh shell at Destroyer Hill shown WIA 23-12-15 arrived hosp Egypt (G) to ADS 3-16 FGCM 5-5-17 deserted 21-4-17 captured 1-5-17 deserted 28-5-17 sentenced 1 year HL FGCM 13-8-17 escaped custody sentenced 2 years HL remitted 3 months to Citadel Military prison 8-17 rtn 11 LHR 2-19 Ex 1R/02 LHR DNE

BOOTS    Herbert Laurie    90    Bugler    01 LHR    A Sqn A Troop shown WIA 20-5-15 arrived Alexandria reported WIA 16/17-5-15 R/arm & buttocks shot possibly when 1 killed and 4 wounded at Popes Post evac to hosp (17 BGH) Egypt 5-15 to hosp (2 Western GH) Manchester UK 8-15 (G) RTA wounded disch 10-4-16 (B Troop ASqn/6 LH (HRL) CMF 4 years) brothers Ralph and Willian GSR

CONROY    Alfred Jack Sevil    101    Cpl    01 LHR    A Sqn C Troop Troop Cpl shown WIA 20-5-15 arrived (17 BGH) Alexandria possibly WIA 16-5-15 both legs shot possibly when 1 killed and 4 wounded at Popes Post evac to hosp (17 BGH) Egypt 20-5-15 to hosp London UK 7-15 (G) RTA wounded invalided disch 30-7-16 MU amputated R/leg (C Troop CSqn/5 LH (NELH) CMF 2 years later WWII Sgt 2 Salvage LofC Sect (N388138) 
 

When he was wounded can be guessed at but unsure?

I had to go back throw the War Dairy, to check the numbers casaulties for each day, and check them against those shown wounded/killed or other from each nominal roll.

But its never a cert from what records there are

[Random guy]

Mate,

Sorry I didnt tell you this but he was in F Company, 10th Battalion. @tankengine888 Helped me find this, "Pte Henry De Graaff, who was wounded on 25th April on the landing at Gallipoli, writing to his mother, Mrs. Gregory street, states that the fired burst near him and blew his sack to pieces without happily harming him in any way. Shortly after however, shrapnel burst about and a splinter striking him between the shoulders, slid off the shot under the shoulder blade and travelled down into the small of his back where the doctors, he said "made bit of a cut and took it out" So as it says there he was wounded on April 25th, but it doesnt say he was submitted to hospital on the 25th but rather May 4th? And as it says he got it removed in hospital, i doubt they would have left him on the beach for 9 days before finally taking him to hospital. So maybe he got it removed went back to fighting was wounded again then hospital May 4th? Merely a speculation, hope this helps.

Thanks,

Random

[alantwo]

15 hours ago, Random guy said:

Hello all,

I am seeking information on a lad who landed in Gallipoli on April 25th 1915, Private Henry Charles De Graaff who is my great great great uncle. I was reviewing his service record where I found he was Submitted to Hospital on May 4th 1915 (G.S.W Back) and was at a field hospital in Valetta Now I assumed he had been wounded on May 4th and evacuated because that’s what it said on his causality record, but I find in his service record that the date of casualty was 25.4.15? But that’s the only page that says it was on the landings. Any information you find will be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Random

A few examples below of artillerymen evacuated from the peninsular to Malta which may be of interest. Obviously not the man you are referring to, but they may help to illustrate the time line from evacuation to a hospital in Malta and how it varies.

No.7 Bombardier Reginald Humphrey Davy.  Admitted hospital Anzac: 1/9/15; Transferred to St Patrick's Hospital Malta ex HS VALDIVA: 11/9/15, influenza;

No.21 Sergeant Benjamin Sexton. Admitted 1/3rd Field Ambulance Gallipoli: 20/11/15, rheumatism; Admitted St George's Hospital Malta ex HS GLOUCESTER CASTLE: 29/11/15;

No.2/567 Gunner Allan Joseph Strawbridge, NZFA. Sent to hospital Anzac: 3/10/15; Admitted St Patrick's Hospital: 10/10/15, malaria. Died: 27/12/15; Com: Pieta Military Cemetery, Malta;

No.2134 Robert Black. To hospital Gallipoli: 16/9/15, dysentery; Admitted HS SALTA ex 26th CCS: 18/9/15; Admitted hospital Malta: 23/9/15; 

Regards

Alan

Edited 10 April by alantwo

[stevenbecker]

Yes I got that, but I was saying its unknown to be 100% when he was wounded by the date he arrived in hosp.

The examples are to show that it took from four to ten days to get there.

It depends on the hosp ship and how full it was and where it was going (Egypt or Malta or other) 

Since you do know when he was wounded, the movement from the beach to Malta must be, what ship he was on, and if they recorded any treatment.

The ship shown in his file is the "Clan MacGillivray" being used as a Hosp ship from the landing to Malta, so that should be a start to see how long they took to move to Malta and if the log book shows any details in it.

Bon chance

PS

The HMAT A 46 "Clan McGillivray",  the first Aussie troops on her and took 8Bn to Anzac in April

I did find this that shows she was picking up wounded at Anzac 25 April 

"At last our lighter reached the transport Clan McGilveray. Amongst the minority I went up by winch and cradle. Up on deck I was thankful to be handed a blanket, and was satisfied with a drink of water and a hard biscuit. Asking someone to take off my boots I wrapped them up in my tunic to serve as a pillow, and crawled under a lifeboat to pass the night. After lying there for some time, squads of A.M.C men, ship’s crew and other able-bodied men went to the different lifeboats as if boat drill was taking place. Asking what was doing, I was informed that orders had come from general headquarters to effect that every available boat of the various ships lying off the coast was to be manned and held in readiness in case it was decided to withdraw all troops fighting on shore. After hanging in the balance for the best part of an hour the desperate scheme was abandoned."

So the trip to Malta needs to be checked to see how long it took?

Edited 10 April by stevenbecker

[Fromelles]

At the time of the landing there was no longer an 'F' Company, it having been rolled over into 'A' Company, 10th Battalion in January 1915. This was due to the Establishment of the battalions changing from 8 to 4 companies system (simply by doubling the size of each company). The following is taken from the Unit history of the 10th Battalion, and shows some of the changes the Battalion when through upon reaching Egypt.

As you are no doubt aware of, the landings were chaotic and the wounded were treated disgracefully. Units became mixed from the moment they landed, which took days to sort. Records from this period testify to that confusion, and this is why there are so many gaps and sparse details in the men's' records.

Dan

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On 10/04/2024 at 01:50, Random guy said:

I find in his service record that the date of casualty was 25.4.15

I haven't seen this man's record, but on British Army Form B.103, the column titled "Date of Casualty" doesn't necessarily mean the date that a man became a casualty.  It's generally the date that any relevant event occurred, e.g. transfers, postings , admissions to hospitalwoundings, death.

The left hand column called "Date" is actually the date on which the officer in charge wrote the entry, and could be written many days or weeks after an event took place.

So in your instance, "Date of Casualty" could mean the date he arrived at a hospital

Perhaps if you could post a copy of the entry, we can see if that is the case with your man, or failing that , a link to his records at NAA?

[Random guy]

Hey,

Thank you for that, I thought F Company (as f company) went into action at Gallipoli but that sorts it out. @Dai Bach y Sowldiwr I'll get back to you soon i'll send a link and the screenshot to the record.

Kind Regards,

random

[Random guy]

Item details (naa.gov.au) @Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

OK

As I suggested previously, "Date" (LH Column) is when this entry was made.

"Date of Casualty" - 4.5.15  relates to him  disembarking in Malta and as it happens the record was written up the same day.
As you have found elsewhere, he was wounded on 25/4/15 at Gaba Tepe.

I imagine he was treated on the beach and evacuated down the line, and ended up in Malta 9 days later.
He would no doubt have received nursing care of some sort on the transport ship during that period.

There isn't a contemporaneous entry in his record of his wounding on that date, but I guess the officers were rather busy back then.....

 

Edited 18 April by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Fromelles]

To simplify it all, here's the original entry on the B.103 -

 

And here's the only reference to being wounded on the 25th April 15 -

The entry referring to being wounded during the landing was made back in Australia at the 7th Australian General Hospital, Keswick, Adelaide.

I'm satisfied he was likely wounded on the day of the landing.

Dan

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, Fromelles said:

I'm satisfied he was likely wounded on the day of the landing.

It's a reasonable conclusion, and there's nothing in his record to disprove that.