Richard Bailie Tonson-Rye, died at Crookstown, Co Cork 1920

[PaulC78]

Hi folks, can anyone please assist with this officer?

(Source: Fold3)

Richard Bailie Tonson-Rye, South Irish Horse, born at Bath in 1877, son of John Bailie Tonson-Rye and Madeleine Charlotte Tonson-Rye. His service goes back at to at least 1895; the 1901 Census places him at the District School of Musketry in Hythe St Leonard, Kent, and in 1911 he was living with his parents at Ryecourt, Crookstown, Co Cork.

The following clippings are from the Cork Weekly News 14 Feb 1920:

(Source: FindMyPast)

He appears to be the brother of Captain John Reginald Tonson-Rye who died in 1919 and is buried at Marseilles: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/339030/john-reginald-tonson-rye/

I am uncertain of his WW1 service, however he has an MIC and there is a service record at TNA which I will hopefully get to view on an upcoming visit to Kew.

(Source: Ancestry)

Until then:

1. Can anyone tell if he was still a serving officer when he died, or is there otherwise any evidence of wartime service?

2. Can anyone find his death certificate? I have tried multiple searches, but despite knowing where and when he died I am drawing a blank!

Any help appreciated.

[corisande]

1 hour ago, PaulC78 said:

Can anyone find his death certificate? I have tried multiple searches, but despite knowing where and when he died I am drawing a blank!

I could not find it either & , I would say in all modesty, that I am good at teasing certs out of Irish GRO

Judging from earlier death, if he died on the estate, then it should be registered in Bandon District . But I can get nothing even just using Christian name and trying spelling errors

Oddly too, although an accident is eluded to there is nothing in the papers. The only brief mentions are "accident" and "died suddenly"

There is no inquest reported, but it could have been suppressed by the military

I wonder if if it was suicide and the cert was removed/held ? I cannot see how I could prove that

He was born 19 May 1877 in England - not really elevant but helps to anyone reading pages of GRO deaths

 

[corisande]

This I think is your man witnessing the death of a family member at Rye court in Jan 1919. It is registered at Bandon

[PaulC78]

1 minute ago, corisande said:

This I think is your man witnessing the death of a family member at Rye court in Jan 1919. It is registered at Bandon

Thanks for that. I tried a search for all deaths registered at Bandon in 1920 but none of the results looked plausible.

[corisande]

Seems he got a SWB - but I cannot pick up his service in LG

[travers61]

Given the families interest in hunting, could that have been the cause of the accident ?

Audio memoirs here of his grand-niece Rosaleen Tonson Rye the summary of which gives this:

Rosaleen Tonson Rye’s grandfather and two granduncles fought on the Western Front during World War I. The eldest, Richard, was a professional soldier who was in the South Cork Militia, her grandfather Reginald was a Major in the Supply Corps while the youngest brother, Lieutenant-Colonel Hubert Tonson Rye DSO served in the Royal Munster Fusiliers. Reginald died of Spanish flu in 1919 before his return home. 

https://www.irishlifeandlore.com/product/rosaleen-tonson-rye/

https://www.irishlifeandlore.com/product/rosaleen-tonson-rye-b-1932-part-1/

 

I expect you have this, but he was in the RE Militia, seconded to Remount Department 1901-1902. His officers record at TNA goes up to him completing 55 days training in 1904. When the record was sent to the RE Records Office in Chatham in May 1921 the summary attached with them shows him as still serving, so maybe he never resigned his militia commission, like you I found no LG entries for this.

 

https://www.fold3.com/image/677163070

 

Apparently still in the RE in 1911 

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001817642/

Edited 8 April by travers61

[PaulC78]

Thanks for digging those up Travers, I had the militia record but those audio memoirs look interesting.

[travers61]

I would be surprised if they don't mention Richard's death as on his death her father inherited the estate as son of second son rather than it going to the third son Hubert who was not happy about it.

 

Travers

[corisande]

10 hours ago, travers61 said:

Given the families interest in hunting, could that have been the cause of the accident ?

If it were a hunting accident, then I would have expected it to have been in the papers, or at least in the brief press death notice.

And there is no death Cert nor any ref I can find to a coroner's report. Given his age at death I would have expected an inquest (which would have been reported on)

[corisande]

The house, Re Court, was burnt and demolished soon after

Irish Aesthete June 1921 was a particularly bad month for country house burnings in north-west County Cork. One of those then lost was Rye Court, seat of the Tonson Rye family: the Ryes were originally living in Cork city (where one of their number was mayor in 1667 and 1668) but had moved to Ryecourt before the end of the 17th century. There they built a fine house and, at some date in the second half of the 18th century changed their name to Tonson Rye as a result of marriage into another family. Ryecourt looked south over a fine parkland, many trees of which still survive but the building was gutted by fire in 1921 and subsequently demolished (a small house was built inside the adjacent walled garden). Immediately behind the old house stood a courtyard with offices to east and west, and with gates and railings closing its north side: all these survive, albeit in poor condition, as can be seen here.

The attack was 13 Jun 1921

[corisande]

This from Big House Burnings

When Captain Richard Bailie Tonson Rye died in his early forties as a result of a tragic accident at Rye Court in February 1920,184 it was noted he “was an all-round sportsman and extremely popular with all classes.” During the First World War he had served with the South Irish Horse Regiment and “gained distinction.” He was the grandson of Captain Richard Tonson Rye, JP,who for some years before his demise in 1907 “was the master of the Muskerry Hounds.” To his sporting prowess and his military honors the grandson added the title of deputy lieutenant—a title held by his father and grandfather before him. But none of this family or personal history would have counted at all favorably among Cork republicans in 1921—quite the reverse.  .......Four days after Rye Court and Crookstown House had been destroyed, it was the turn of Warren’s Court, the considerably larger mansion of Sir Augustus Digby Warren, located about five miles east of Macroom. Endowed with thirty-two rooms and considered “one .  Another reason why the Tonson Ryes doubtless had alienated some local republicans was that the family still owned and directly exploited a considerable amount of land. Before his death Captain Richard Tonson Rye “farmed extensively and was a large property owner” (ibid.). At the time of the burning the owner of the mansion and demesne—John R. C. Tonson Rye—was legally a minor, and it was to his trustees that the Recorder of Cork nominally awarded compensation of £16,350in October 1921 (IT, 20, 22 Oct. 1921). 

[PaulC78]

The newspaper article mentions a "private family burial ground", I don't know if that would have been on the estate?

[corisande]

3 minutes ago, PaulC78 said:

a "private family burial ground",

Quite a long article here - click that concludes

There is a separate grave for the Rye family in Ryecourt but they are also members of the family supposed to be buried here in a vault of which their descendants cannot locate.

[corisande]

Nice house before it was burnt

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

11 hours ago, corisande said:

This I think is your man witnessing the death of a family member at Rye court in Jan 1919. It is registered at Bandon

I guess you've already deciphered it, but for completion, the cause of death is:

" Cardiac Failure 1/2hr. following excision of tongue for Epithelioma, 2 days 15 hrs. Certified"

Epithelioma -Squamous Carcinoma- Cancer of the tongue. Predisposing factors - smoking, drinking and nowadays HPV Virus.

[PaulC78]

I'm at TNA with his file now, looks like we can rule out death in service.

[kildaremark]

Cause of death - Cork Examiner 7 February 1920

 

Mark

 

[PaulC78]

Thanks Mark, well done finding that!

[corisande]

Thanks Mark, that looks definitive

By any chance do they report the inquest as well. There must have been one