Goerz Helinox Binoculars DRP.

[Dave66]

Afternoon all,

Just picked a somewhat cosmetically tired but optically good pair of German binoculars, they were in a very decent 42 dated 37 pattern binocular case which is the main reason for the purchase so I initially assumed a mismatch.
Doing a little online searching on serial numbers they seem to be pre WW1, and German issued hence the DRP marking….but they have an early broad arrow BUT no sort of S grading, so what period of service do we think they have seen?…WW1 or WW2.

”lady Ludlow”…all I can find is reference to the book, and images in the national portrait gallery so any help appreciated on that interesting aspect of them.

Dave.

 

Edited 6 April by Dave66

[MikB]

The style of the Broad Arrow with its tapered engraving looks much more typical of WW1 period than WW2, when a simpler form with parallel-sided grooves seems to have been more usual.

The DRP ("Deutsches Reichs Patent") could put it any time betwee 1877 and 1945, but I don't think we needed that to tell us this! 

If it ever belonged to Lady Alice Sedgwick, the only real Lady Ludlow I could find (Mrs Elizabeth Gaskell seems to have created a fictitious one in the 19th C) , she didn't become Lady Ludlow until September 1919. So if we assume that it was hers sometime after 1919, the question remains as to whether it aquired the WD arrow before WW1 (and therefore missed the 'S.1' grading it would likely have got in 1914 - 18) or whether she donated it to military service in or before WW2 and the arrow was engraved by a craftsman using an older style.

Dunno. Best of luck with that one. 

Looks a good glass, though.

[Dave66]

Thank you Mik,

The only thing I was getting on the lady Ludlow search was Cranford, so many thanks for that. They’ve  certainly got quite a long and possibly fascinating story to tell if they could talk…German binoculars issued to the British army would probably not have gone down too well!

Looks like a bit of a conundrum.

Dave.

[Dave66]

She looks to have quite a benefactor during the Great War…..https://www.worldwar1luton.com/individual/lady-alice-wernherludlow

These might have been her’s, another option was she donated older binoculars at the outbreak of WW2 under some sort of fund using her name??

Edit….link to Luton Hoo Mansion…https://www.worldwar1luton.com/object/luton-hoo-mansion

Edit…..link to Luton Hoo Memorial Park…https://www.worldwar1luton.com/object/luton-hoo-memorial-park

Edit…link to Alex Piggot Werner, KIA 10th September 1916..https://www.worldwar1luton.com/individual/2nd-lieutenant-alexander-pigott-wernher

Edited 7 April by Dave66
Links added.

[4thGordons]

2 hours ago, Dave66 said:

…German binoculars issued to the British army would probably not have gone down too well!

 

It seems to have been fairly common actually - I think German binoculars probably had a pretty good reputation and might have been reasonably common amongst those who had such things pre war -- some were certainly loaned

Here is a pair of Carl Zeiss (Jena) Telactem 8x "Lent by S J Harris of Abbey Park, Keynsham, Somerset"

I have not researched who SJ Harris might be

I also don't know the meaning of the N.S.L.  E711  stamp 

 

Chris

[Dave66]

 

What a great inscription, I think N.S.L. Is National service league…https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/256307-national-service-league-field-glasses-scheme/ …German engineering has always been good…my car is nearly 30 years old and still going😂.

 

[MikB]

That inscription is an astonishing piece of work - faultlessly executed by a craftsman using (AFAIK) purely manual skills. It's also interesting that 'Great War' still had an alternative name at the time it was done - as if then it was still something happening 'over there on the continent'  (and was expected to be over by Christmas?).

Talking of the use of German instruments by British/Allied forces - I believe there was actually an attempt to relieve the shortage in optical munitions by an approach to the German government, and that the broad shape of a transaction had been sketched out before something kyboshed it. As it turned out, the British optical industry seems eventually to have risen well to the challenge, for example with makers like Ross and Kershaw.

[Dave66]

As it’s been yet another wet morning here, I thought I’d give them a bit of a clean up. They’ve been really messed around with in the past, someone has stripped all the leather off, lost a screw and crudely scraped the majority of the paint off so I took the decision to remove the remaining paint and clean without being too abrasive….it will tone down over time.

I’m a little unsure as to what to do where the leather was so would appreciate any suggestions….looks quite fiddly to recover them as not attempting to fully strip down to make life easier, but is there a textured paint or similar that would look acceptable, any body successfully attempted this sort of thing before?

Dave.

[MikB]

Myself, I wouldn't try to replace the leather. I don't know whether Action Optics would take that on, or even if they're still active, but I wouldn't think the cost justified, though you might have a different view.

For a paint refinish, I'd be tempted to try Hammerite hammer finish black or grey. It's widely available, works on all sorts of surfaces, and properly prepared a very nice result might be possible - but I'd leave the brass endplates bare or clear lacquered.

Just my thoughts....😊

Regards, 

Mick

 

 

[Dave66]

Thanks Mick,

You have backed up my thoughts with regard recovering, and to be honest, they don’t have enough value in them to justify what would probably be expensive to have it done commercially. Hamerite may well be the answer, I was thinking of something a little more textured…could always have a play round as I’m sure I have something in the garage. I’m happy with the brass as it is, it’s not my intention to restore, just to make them look a little better.

They are a nice compact pair that I will keep by the window where I display all the other older stuff, they fit in quite nicely.

Dave.

[MikB]

Wartime (from either World War) 6 x 30s of good manufacture are a handy ready-use instrument. They'll have excellent depth-of-field so the individual-eyepiece focussing when set up covers a great range of distances. It's easy to see why they were a favourite format for compact military glasses.

Edited 9 April by MikB