Understanding Entry in 1939 England and Wales Register

[Staycalm]

Hi all, I'm helping someone trace a missing ancestor and am trying to get as much info on this one person. He's in the 1939 England and Wales Registry. I noticed this notation on his entry. Is there anyone here who can help me understand what it means? Or point me to where I might get help with it? I am assuming it's about his military service. I know he joined up in 1918 just before the armistice but his record is damaged. Many thanks!!

[Michelle Young]

If he served in WW2, then I’d recommend ww2talk.com

[kenf48]

Welcome to the GWF

The seven digit number was allocated after 1920.  This was a personal number so his records may well be at the National Archives having been transferred from the MoD 

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/new-british-army-numbers-issued-in-1920/

A name is often helpful

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

If he served in WW2, then I’d recommend ww2talk.com

2 hours ago, kenf48 said:

The seven digit number was allocated after 1920.  

Hang on folks.

I put it that the number is a mis-transcription of T/454057 which is a plausible ASC number from the Great War era.
The clue is 'HT' [Horse Transport] Driver'.

Although I concede I can't find a MIC, and agree that a name would help

Edit:

Can't find T/454057, but near number T/454055 is there in the Medal Rolls, a Driver Albert Edward Woods in the ASC.
Nothing then until *****062, then ***075.They're all Drivers.

I'll guess Home Service only.

Edited 3 April by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[kenf48]

18 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

I put it that the number is a mis-transcription of T/454057 which is a plausible ASC number from the Great War era.
The clue is 'HT' [Horse Transport] Driver'.

You may well be right, you probably are, but he would he have the same number in 1919 if he was in the Reserves in 1939?  Without a name and with a corrupted, incomplete image from 1939 Register don't see why we should waste our time trying to second guess what information is already known.

Apparently there is a damaged WW1 service record.

(from an admin point of view post has been reported as WW2 but there is clearly a Great War connection however tenuous)

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, kenf48 said:

(from an admin point of view post has been reported as WW2 but there is clearly a Great War connection however tenuous)

I don't want to start an argument, but I strongly disagree.

The GWF mission statement on googling 'The Great War Forum' states its purpose is:

          "...to discuss all aspects of the Great War..."  (It doesn't actually mention how untenuous an aspect has to be...)

But that's beside the point.

I feel that Great War Veterans were a special generation, and those that signed up for a second lot, were even more special.
Some of them died the second time round.
The 1939 Register is a most valuable source of information about that generation,  it helps link names, addresses and dates of birth and as in this case, throws up valuable service details from the Great War era. There are many examples in this forum of the register being a valuable cross reference, and several military and familial conundra have been solved as a result.

I wouldn't describe such connections as tenuous, but appreciate that others may feel differently.

[Staycalm]

Sorry everyone! I didn't mean to cause any disputes.

The short story is I am looking for info on Frederick Charles Futter who was born in 1900 Norfolk, UK. I found one absolutely unreadable page in the WW1 records. Not only burnt but the transcribers should have gotten a medal due to the faintness of anything recorded. 

I only noticed the extra note when I went and looked directly at the 1939 document, rather than just the transcribed info, which did not include it. There is also tape covering some of the info so it has made interpretation harder if you don't have the previous knowledge.

I have been a member here since 2011, lurked for quite a bit and have tried to be respectful in only making requests about things I couldn't work out for myself. I always appreciate any help I get here and I have learnt a lot about all sorts of lesser known things related to the Great War. 

[rksimpson]

The 1939 register says Labourer Joinery Dept. (Heavy ??) Regimental Number 7(probably should be T)/404057 H T Driver Emergency Reserves RA.

There is more than 1 page for his service record on Ancestry, just keep flicking through. 102590 Middlesex Regt, enlisted Sept 1918, posted 53rd in October and 2nd in March 1919 then transferred to RASC August 1919, transferred to Class Z in 1920. Page after that one verifies his service number with them as T/404057. Lots of pages to go through and most better than the first page.

 

regards

Robert

[travers61]

On the 1939 Register if the word heavy is put beside an occupation, it is to do with the expected use of the register to issue ration books. When rationing started in early 1940 heavy workers received 8oz of cheese per week instead of the usual 3oz.

 

Travers

[Staycalm]

Thankyou, both of you. Fascinating to learn about the use of the word heavy in this context. Also thanks for letting me know there is more of his service record available. I'm particularly interested in what he was doing in the 20s, as I'm looking for a Frederick Futter who was "a dock worker", possibly in Kings Lynn, Norfolk. But that's definitely outside of what I am here to learn.

Have a great day everyone!

[PRC]

18 hours ago, Staycalm said:

The short story is I am looking for info on Frederick Charles Futter who was born in 1900 Norfolk, UK.

Is that the Frederick Charles Futter, mothers' maiden name Hambling, whose birth was registered with the civil authorities in the Blofield Civil Registration District in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1900?

Likely baptism in the Parish of Hemblington All Saints on the 6th November 1900, date of birth in the parish register as 7th September 1900. Baptism shown as private, so may have happened in the church or at home if the child or mother was ill and not expected to survive. Parents were William, a Labourer, and Julia Jane. https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5818fd2fe93790ec8b8cbcbe/frederick-charles-futter-baptism-norfolk-hemblington-1900-11-06?locale=en

On the 1901 Census of England & Wales the 6 month old Frederick Futter, born Witton, Norfolk, was recorded living with parents William and Julia and older brother Gilbert at Burlingham Road, Hemblington - the next couple of dwellings are shown as the Hall and then All Saints Church.

By 1911 aged 11 his birthplace is shown as "Witton W. Norwich" - presumably to distinguish it from the other Witton's in the County. Head of the household is his 34 year old widowed mother Julia, born Blofield. She has given the postal address when signing the declaration as "Peddam" Road,  Hemblington Road, but I believe it's actually Pedham Road = Pedham is a small nearby hamlet. Her marriage produced 6 children of which 5 were then still still alive - Gilbert W. (17), Frederick, Florence (8), Ethel Muriel, (3) and Sidney Reginald, (1 - "2 in May").

So if the normal process applied he won't have been called up until after his 18th birthday, (September 1918) and wouldn't have been sent to a Theatre of War until he 19 - by which time the Great War was effectively over, bar completion of the Peace Treaty negotiations and ratification of the Treaty - although the British Army was still involved in other fighting & policing all over the world.

Given his age and likely date of conscription he won't appear on the 1918 Absent Voters List.

While I don't have a paid subscription to FindMyPast from whats can be seen there indexed for the 1921 Census of England & Wales there is a Frederick Futter, born Witton, Norfolk c1900 who was recorded in a household at Norwich. Others resident in the same household are:-
Julia Wigley, born Blofield, c1876
Charles Wigley, born Norwich c1870
Ethel Futter, born Hemblington, Norfolk c1907
Sidney Futter, born Norwich c1909
Harry Wigley, born Norwich c1905
Violet Wigley, born Norwich c1906
Norah Wigley, born Norwich c1910
James Wigley, born Norwich c1913
and 1 other

Apologies if none of that is new to you.

Cheers,
Peter

[Staycalm]

Thankyou Peter. I had some of this info but you have included a few bits and pieces I missed. I wish I could tell if he worked on the docks and had a connection to Kings Lynn, but that is very off topic now so I will conclude this here. Cheers

 

[Staycalm]

Sorry all, me again. I've been reading through his army records and I wondered if the Woolwich Dockyards is mentioned because it's where he was demobbed. Or can I read anything else into it? Would he have been working there? 

Snip attached.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Woolwich Dockyards is where the ASC Records Office was located.
My grandfather also had Woolwich Dockyard on his service record.

Whether they ever went there to be processed I don't know, as his dispersal certificate/ protection certificate was filled in at Prees Heath dispersal centre .