navydoc16 Posted 3 April Share Posted 3 April (edited) A fun one I thought I would share for discussion- serving both Wars for Britain and possibly as a small moral destroyer for the latter as a “Hobart Spear”or “Croft Pike” Made in the US as part of the rarer and smaller Winchester contract in May 1916. Not sure where she went but was still in excellent condition at the end. With what I believe is a U.S. contract WJN scabbard fitting- but curiously on what appears to be a pig skin economy leather scabbard. During WW2 she was fitted with a welded steel scaffolding pipe approx 5 foot long and turned into a spear- there is several marks on the grips where they were fitting the pipe over and removing it wiggling it back and forth. it was removed by the time it saw me, but was sold to me with the correct Home Guard Pattern ‘38 leather frog. The welds were never correctly removed as they don’t affect fitment on the Pattern’14 rifle. apparently they were not widely issued out to prevent what would be the naturally widespread mental discomfort of being issued a knife on a stick - to face the Germans. I couldn’t find good photos of another online so I thought I would post this one for posterity and discussion. kind regards g Edited Tuesday at 03:18 by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 3 April Author Share Posted 3 April Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 3 April Share Posted 3 April That's a very nice Winchester bayonet - shame about the welds.! I have one of these Winchester P1913 as well, and they have a very appealing look to them, one of my favourite bayonets. Your scabbard is actually a WW2 build, going on the markings stamped on the metalwork. They are W.J.H. over B which stands for W.J. Hill Limited of Birmingham. The M/121 is the WW2 code which identifies the business as a Midlands contractor. Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 3 April Author Share Posted 3 April 1 hour ago, shippingsteel said: That's a very nice Winchester bayonet - shame about the welds.! I have one of these Winchester P1913 as well, and they have a very appealing look to them, one of my favourite bayonets. Your scabbard is actually a WW2 build, going on the markings stamped on the metalwork. They are W.J.H. over B which stands for W.J. Hill Limited of Birmingham. The M/121 is the WW2 code which identifies the business as a Midlands contractor. Cheers, SS Perfect, thanks a heap. I read several forms attributing them to a WW1 contractor. But it makes sense with the pig skin, when the UK government ordered the pikes- assumption being they did not care about the scabbards going back to the original bayonets and replacements swapped out where necessary. Once again pleasure receiving the knowledge from you SS. Kind regards, g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisasterDog Posted 3 April Share Posted 3 April That’s a great find! Too bad it’s been removed from the pipe, but the welds certainly attest to the history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 4 April Share Posted 4 April (edited) Here is a photo of my Winchester P1913 bayonet which I mentioned above. It is in virtually mint condition and as I said one of my favourite bayonets. It just happened to come out of Afghanistan (and via Canada) crazy to think where these things been hidden all this time. Probably the best example of WW1 sandblasted finish in my collection. Cheers, SS Edited 4 April by shippingsteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 April Share Posted 10 April On 03/04/2024 at 13:12, navydoc16 said: During WW2 she was fitted with a welded steel scaffolding pipe approx 5 foot long and turned into a spear- there is several marks on the grips where they were fitting the pipe over and removing it wiggling it back and forth. What a nice find! My dad was in the HG and told me about them - I knew they existed but never expected to see the evidence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 10 April Share Posted 10 April There’s an example here….https://www.wdmilitaria.co.uk/shop.php?code=22331 ,been there for a while! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 10 April Author Share Posted 10 April 2 hours ago, Dave66 said: There’s an example here….https://www.wdmilitaria.co.uk/shop.php?code=22331 ,been there for a while! Dave. For that price I couldn’t imagine why. I have been offered several in the past but I have always shyed because it little more than a basic 1913 with a pipe welded to it. A dubious person could easily make a lot of money by doing just that. realistically the reason I forked out for mine- which was relatively reasonable was the fact the pipe was removed and the welds broken. That is what is purported to have been ordered once the UK had sufficient M1917s with 30.06 and more .303 ammunition. They bayonets were supposed to be returned to their normal state . I have seen a couple more realistic examples where the welds have been ground down either post war or during HG service. I have sufficient doubts about a lot of the ones on the market including ^ kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 11 April Share Posted 11 April (edited) 8 hours ago, trajan said: What a nice find! My dad was in the HG and told me about them - I knew they existed but never expected to see the evidence! Edited 11 April by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 11 April Share Posted 11 April The Australian Army Infantry Museum at Singleton had a couple of these on display back in the 1970s when they had lots of weapons on display (they are now a bit woke). They had been repainted in what was the current RAA karkee green at the time, a colour only adopted in the 1960s. To be honest I always wondered whether they were real or just bodgies made up to look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 11 April Author Share Posted 11 April 2 minutes ago, Chasemuseum said: The Australian Army Infantry Museum at Singleton had a couple of these on display back in the 1970s when they had lots of weapons on display (they are now a bit woke). They had been repainted in what was the current RAA karkee green at the time, a colour only adopted in the 1960s. To be honest I always wondered whether they were real or just bodgies made up to look good. It seems doubtful that many made their way to Aus to be honest, possible but not likely. I know of a couple in the Uk, some are dubious and one has very good history because it was in almost relic conditon and was found in a garden shed, bloke had been using it to poke holes in the garden for seeds and such I think. there was a bunch made from a dealer in the UK from unfinished blade blanks from the 1907. I inquired about it thinking it was a reasonable piece given it was stipulated that they were made from production failure 1907s destined for scrap and it had no markings except a bend test. But then he asked me wether I wanted a second or third and I backed away. All the 1907 unfinished blade one are BS, and they have been dispersed out there. kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 11 April Share Posted 11 April Back in the 70s the Infantry Museum was prone to doing a few rough things. One year they lent my unit a selection of VC/ARVN/and USA cam uniforms and field equipments to use as "enemy" uniforms for our annual field exercise. Of course they got utterly trashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 11 April Author Share Posted 11 April Hahaha I love that mate, well they were worth nothing back then though. We still do the same with gear that is 10-15 years old. kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 11 April Author Share Posted 11 April 2 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: Yeah imagine the morale booster lining up for that photo would have been. Must have been some funny jokes before and after that picture kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 12 April Author Share Posted 12 April (edited) On 11/04/2024 at 02:13, trajan said: What a nice find! My dad was in the HG and told me about them - I knew they existed but never expected to see the evidence! Did you dad ever tell you about the p1913 Morse code lantern by chance? I am trying to find more info on it kind regards g Edited 12 April by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April No. The only other thing he mentioned was how when he used a Bren for the first time he got a bull's eye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted Tuesday at 03:19 Author Share Posted Tuesday at 03:19 (edited) @shippingsteel I’ll update this thread in a couple weeks with some extra photos - I only have one more P1913 pike variation to find kind regards g Edited Tuesday at 10:37 by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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