Australian Soldiers - PHOTO

[Gunner Bailey]

Whilst at an antiques fair in Cornwall last week I found this photo of a group of Australian soldiers. It is incredibly faded but by using photo imaging software has made it more visible. No badges can be seen but there may be one British Soldier in the photo. It would be a miracle if someone could be identified by our Australian members.

[Michelle Young]

A couple of division colour patches visible. Back left as I look at it, might be 40th Btn. Back right as I look might be 6th Brigade LTM, which I assume means  Light Trench Mortar. Image ©️ WFA may assist. I think they’re a mixed bunch. 

[Gunner Bailey]

Thanks Michelle, that's useful.

I may detect collar badges on 4 of the soldiers.

[Michelle Young]

They all look to be wearing the AIF uniform, even the men wearing the cap. I make it 6 wearing collar badges. 

[Fedelmar]

Michelle ... convert the colour patch chart to black and white and it helps identify the ones in the photograph ... I have a black and white one printed off use it far more than the coloured one.

[stevenbecker]

Of cause the photo could be anyone and any where.

But more likely they were station up the road from Cornwall, around the Salisbury Area

Large AIF training areas and depots were there, and many men from different units stayed there at times

Also recovery and rest areas where those got better and sent back to the front.

The different Div's would support that view.

[Mattr82]

What a great photo mate and thanks for sharing.

All the soldiers in the photo are wearing Australian uniforms (even old mate in the cap).

There's a mixture of 1st pattern and 2nd pattern. The first pattern was made in Australia and used non-metallic button and had the belt external to the jacket. The 2nd pattern was manufactured in Britain with Australian wool and used metal buttons. There's some other differences too but hard to pick up on unless your looking at it in detail.

[Fromelles]

3 hours ago, Mattr82 said:

There's a mixture of 1st pattern and 2nd pattern. The first pattern was made in Australia and used non-metallic button and had the belt external to the jacket. The 2nd pattern was manufactured in Britain with Australian wool and used metal buttons. There's some other differences too but hard to pick up on unless your looking at it in detail.

The brass Commonwealth Pattern buttons can be found on all patterns of jacket, just not in any large numbers. Both Australian and British jackets were made using vegetable ivory buttons, but can be found with brass and leather ones also. 

It was also common for the buckle and belt to be cut off the jackets, which on a grainy photo such as this, makes identifying the type of jacket impossible.  

12 hours ago, Fedelmar said:

Michelle ... convert the colour patch chart to black and white and it helps identify the ones in the photograph ... I have a black and white one printed off use it far more than the coloured one.

It isn't just a case of converting colour to black and white, the photographic film most often in use back then was orthographic film which renders colour tones differently than might be expected (reds and yellows are dark due to the film not being sensitive to certain wavelengths of light) from modern B/W film.

Dan

[Mattr82]

8 minutes ago, Fromelles said:

The brass Commonwealth Pattern buttons can be found on all patterns of jacket, just not in any large numbers. Both Australian and British jackets were made using vegetable ivory buttons, but can be found with brass and leather ones also. 

It was also common for the buckle and belt to be cut off the jackets, which on a grainy photo such as this, makes identifying the type of jacket impossible.  

It isn't just a case of converting colour to black and white, the photographic film most often in use back then was orthographic film which renders colour tones differently than might be expected (reds and yellows are dark due to the film not being sensitive to certain wavelengths of light) from modern B/W film.

Dan

It is hard to tell exactly what pattern each soldier is wearing I do agree.

 

Oh....I shall have to share some photos next time I see it but my girlfriends grandfather (Laurie) passed away in November last year and last month they went through some of his stuff in the garage. I was there for the day helping my girlfriend and we (family that was there) came across a trunk that belonged to Lauries father, Edwin Walker. And inside it is a complete 2nd Pattern AIF uniform from when he returned home in 1919. Tunic, undershirt, breeches, puttees and boots and a squashed slouch hat. Edwin was with the 14th M.G Coy and was captured at Fromelles. I'm trying to convince the family to hand it to the AWM rather than leave it sitting in the trunk in the garage.

[Fromelles]

52 minutes ago, Mattr82 said:

Oh....I shall have to share some photos next time I see it but my girlfriends grandfather (Laurie) passed away in November last year and last month they went through some of his stuff in the garage. I was there for the day helping my girlfriend and we (family that was there) came across a trunk that belonged to Lauries father, Edwin Walker. And inside it is a complete 2nd Pattern AIF uniform from when he returned home in 1919. Tunic, undershirt, breeches, puttees and boots and a squashed slouch hat. Edwin was with the 14th M.G Coy and was captured at Fromelles. I'm trying to convince the family to hand it to the AWM rather than leave it sitting in the trunk in the garage.

Yes, please do share a pic or two

[Gunner Bailey]

Thanks for all those replies. The photo itself was printed as a postcard (as many were), but the size is interesting - just 4 1/4" X 3 3/8" (110mm X 86mm) so smaller than a standard UK printed postcard. Could it have been printed in Australia? 

[CorporalPunishment]

On 02/04/2024 at 17:43, Gunner Bailey said:

Whilst at an antiques fair in Cornwall last week I found this photo of a group of Australian soldiers. It is incredibly faded but by using photo imaging software has made it more visible. No badges can be seen but there may be one British Soldier in the photo. It would be a miracle if someone could be identified by our Australian members.

There's several amputees amongst them so they are probably waiting to be shipped back home or have already arrived home.        Pete.

[WhiteStarLine]

9 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

There's several amputees amongst them

I'm embarrassed to say I hadn't spotted this and it is so obvious now it is pointed out.  I thought the expressions seemed quite solemn, as if they'd seen some action, but that's all.  The man at the top right has something tucked under his arm and is that a riband over his left tunic pocket? 

[tankengine888]

28 minutes ago, WhiteStarLine said:

 The man at the top right has something tucked under his arm and is that a riband over his left tunic pocket? 

I'm sure that's a Boer War riband bar you see- the QSA and KSA.

[Gunner Bailey]

13 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

There's several amputees amongst them so they are probably waiting to be shipped back home or have already arrived home.        Pete.

I'd not spotted that either. Well done. I wondered if the small size of the postcard meant it was Australian printed rather than UK. So they may have been back home.

[Chasemuseum]

Size was not nearly as standardized then as it is now. Lots of photos by professional photographers were glass plate negatives with contact printing onto the paper prints. So you end up with minor variations between different manufacturers of cameras. With the move to rolled film negatives - you see a move into standardized sizes, particularly with huge volume camera manufacturers like Kodak-Eastman.