Pre-War HMS Stag / Orantes

[clark136]

Hi there,

 

Forgive this being pre-ww1, but I am hoping there is someone on here who may be able to shed some light...

 

My Great grandfather, 204052 Fred Rice was on the Orion and Orontes from January 09 to Feb 11. As you can see from the attached screen shot from his service record, it has STAG written in brackets after.

 

So firstly, what could this mean? was he part of the ships company for Orion and Orontes but spent time on Stag during this period?

 

Secondly, I have seen things online that suggest that the Stag collided with the Mallard on the 22nd November 1910 and that both ships suffered damaged to their sterns; however in Fred's photographs we found a photo of the Mallard with a clearly damaged BOW - on the reverse, Fred himself has written: "HMS Mallard, in collision with Stag 8:30 pm 22/03/10"

So im curious to hear what are peoples thoughts on the official documents stating the collision was in November?

 

all the best,

Chris

[Keith_history_buff]

Hi,
The ship "HMS Orion" was launched in 1879, and was renamed as "HMS Orontes". She was a depot ship at Malta. 

Under the terms of the Naval Discipline Act, sailors had to be associated with a "big ship", in my words. Where there was a squadron of small vessels, the "Accounting Base" would be the depot ship, and the smaller vessel would be a "tender" to it. I hope the following post is of interest, similarly regarding how a destroyer was documented on a service record.

 

[clark136]

Hi Keith, 

 

thats great - thank you so much for that. So Fred was on the Stag, but was "administered" by the Orion/Orontes. That makes sense - thank you!

[Keith_history_buff]

Hope these links are some interest

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/H.M.S._Orion_(1879)

https://www.pdavis.nl/ShowShip.php?id=2543

 

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/H.M.S._Stag_(1899)

[Keith_history_buff]

Also, it's worth mentioning that when he disembarked a vessel at his home port Devonport, he was borne on the the books of HMS Vivid, as "stone frigate", for the purposes of conforming with the Naval Discipline Act.

[clark136]

Thanks very much Keith, very much appreciated. 

 

That makes sense about Vivid - got to be accounted for somewhere i guess!

 

[Keith_history_buff]

I see that he was promoted from Leading Seaman to Petty Officer (New Series) just prior to the outbreak of war. He held this rating during the war, and was aboard the cruiser HMS Foresight from 29 April 1915 to 28 April 1918. It would appear that he was in the Mediterranean, then the Aegean.

[Keith_history_buff]

He subsequently joined the Auxiliary Patrol in Ireland.

From 1 July 1918 to 29 January 1919, he was with the depot ship at Buncrana, and is borne on the books of Hecla II.
From 30 January 1919 he was aboard "Silence", which was a tender to HMS Colleen, the depot ship at Queenstown. 

By the way "Petty Officer (New System)" is the correct breakout of those initials.

Given this is a WW1 forum, I thought it advisable to expand upon his WW1 service. 

 

[clark136]

ah - i have always wondered what the "(NS)" was after PO on his service record! thank you once again!!  

Yes indeed, Foresight for the majority of the War, starting the war however on Fantome which I believe was in service as a survey ship in the waters around Australia at the outbreak of war, and was transferred to the RAN in November of 1914. 

 

I think "Silence" may have actually been "Silene"?

 

[Keith_history_buff]

Yes, you are right, Silene is indeed the name of that vessel, and appears here:

https://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBritishShips-Locations6Dist.htm