Pte John H Varley No 210206? or 310206? West Yorkshire Regiment

[DaveC]

Seeking information on Pte  John H Varley No. 210206? or 310206.    (3rd West Yorkshire Regiment. (206 Corps Dunnington or Donnigton Camp,, Salisbury).   Not to sure about bracketed  information.   Any help most welcome. Kindest and Warmest Regards DaveC

Edited 1 April by DaveC

[Michelle Young]

I can find #201257 John Hargreaves Varley 2/4 West Riding Regiment, awarded MSM and the pair. Is that your man? I’d say it was Durrington Camp.  

[George Rayner]

John Hargreaves Varley also appears as #3368 West Riding.

Birth date 1893

George

Address in Halifax?

George

[DaveC]

Hi Michelle

   Sorry àbout this I made a typo  it should say West Yorkshire Regiment not West Riding Regiment.  Kindest Regards DaveC

[DaveC]

Hi George

   Would the address Brunewick Square,  Haley Hill, Halifax?   Kindest Regards DaveC

 

 

 

Edited 1 April by DaveC

[George Rayner]

No...

41 Lane End Green Hipperholme, Halifax

Father as NoK: Timothy

George

 

 

[Michelle Young]

There’s a John Henry Varley 2 West Yorkshire, #8880. Can I ask where you are getting your primary information from? 

[George Rayner]

A change of address noted as 

3, Freedom Court, Claremount(?), Halifax

George

Edited 1 April by George Rayner

[DaveC]

HI George

   No that's not him his father was Richard he was gassed in 1916 he wad anyy777d his brother was LCpl Thomas Varley Kia 3rd Sept 1916 with the1/4th West Riding Regiment.  Kindest Regards DaveC

[George Rayner]

Thanks for that.

So we have 

John Hargreaves Varley

address  Brunswick Square,  Haley Hill, Halifax

Father Richard

Brother Thomas KIA 3/9/1916 1/4 West Riding

George

[DaveC]

Hi Mechelle

  John's name appears  on the next of kin for Thomas Varley under siblings and it says he is serving with the West Yorkshire Regiment

[George Rayner]

Was he married? If so wife's name please? Ivy by any chance?

George

[Michelle Young]

Where did you get the numbers and the information about Durrington? 

[George Rayner]

Courtesy Fold 3 a Pension Card for Thomas 

Sorry for some reason it wont copy and paste

Mrs Emma Varley

8a Brunswick Square, Haley Hill

#2059 West Riding Regiment

George

[DaveC]

Hi Mechelle

   John's name appears on the  next of kin list under the siblings list for his brother Thomas Varley giving his name rank No and station but is very hard to read

 

[George Rayner]

Just now, DaveC said:

John's name appears on the  next of kin list under the siblings list for his brother Thomas Varley giving his name rank No and station but is very hard to read

 

Is this in Ancestry or Find My Past please? Could you send a URL?

George

[George Rayner]

Sorry...but I am completely lost!

I can't find anything to link the two men. They don't appear to be on the census together in any record and I would have expected that.

Could you copy and paste any resources-or post URLs to help please?

George

[Michelle Young]

Nothing on CWGC apart from the bare bones.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544453/t-varley/

[PRC]

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is a Varley family living at No.1 Pump Street, Holy Hill, Halifax, which is headed up by parents Richard, (37, a Cart Driver for a General Carrier, born Liversidge, Yorkshire) and Emma, (36, born Lownson, Yorkshire). The couple state they have been married 14 years and the union has produced 6 children, of which 4 were then still alive.

All four were recorded living with them.
Thomas, aged 13, born Liversidge, school part time and Doffer at a Worsted Spinning Mill.
John Henry, aged 10, born Halifax.
Arthur, aged 5, born Halifax.
Annie, aged 11 months, born Halifax.

The most likely marriage of the parents was recorded in the Dewsbury District of Yorkshire in Q3 1896, when a Richard Varley married an Emma Wardman.
Likely children from the civil birth records, all with mothers' maiden name Wardman:-

Thomas Varley, Dewsbury District Q2 1897.
John Henry Varley, Halifax District Q3 1900
Rawdon Varley, Halifax District, Q2 1903, probable death Halifax District aged 1, Q4 1904.
Arthur Varley, Halifax District Q3 1905
Laura Varley, Halifax District Q1 1908, probable death Halifax District aged under 1, Q3 1908.
Annie Varley, Halifax District Q2 1910
Norman Varley, Halifax District, Q1 1914
James Varley, Halifax District Q4 1915

If that is the correct family, and assuming he didn't lie about his age pre-conscription, he would have been called up on or shortly after his 18th birthday - so c.Q3 1918.
He shouldn't have been sent to a Theatre of War before he was 19. This was dropped slightly following the catastrophic losses incurred by the British Army in the German Spring Offensive, but not by enough to see him drafted out to a front line unit, and was back in place by the late summer of 1918. At best he might have been one of the men in a Young Soldiers Battalion sent out to form part of the Army of Occupation in Germany to allow those who had fought to be discharge. As such no medals, and therefore no MiC.

As for John Hargreaves Varley, assuming he was born in England & Wales means only one likely candidate in the generation who would have fought in the Great War which was a birth registered with the civil authorities in the North Bierley District of Yorkshire in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1893. Mothers’ maiden name was Hornsey.

Parents were Timothy and Amy Helene Varley, nee Hornsby. The couple married in 1892 and Amy was dead at the age of 26 in 1899, shortly after the birth of the couples third child. Both the birth of the child and her death were recorded in the Halifax civil registration district. I can write out a fuller family history, but in terms of identifying the relative of Thomas Varley on the W5080 I suspect John Hargreaves Varley is a red herring.

BTW looks like Thomas Varley is recorded by the CWGC under his 1917 TF number, even though he was already dead. I suspect that is because he was still officially missing. The Cemetery History for Mill Road Cemetery, Thiepval, where he is interred, states "Mill Road Cemetery (called at one time Mill Road Cemetery No.2) was made during the spring of 1917, when the German withdrawal to the Hindenburg line allowed the battlefield of 1916 to be cleared."https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/60600/mill-road-cemetery-thiepval/

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544453/t-varley/

Cheers,
Peter

[DaveC]

Hi George

i’m so sorry I don’t have the means to copy and paste as I’m using an iPad and I’m not proficient with it

yet, but if you have access to ancestry he his mentioned on Thomas army records Kindest and warmest regards DaveC

 

 

[DaveC]

PRC many thanks for the information on John Henry, his brother Arthur aged 5 was my grandfather.   Kindest And Warmest Regards DaveC 

[PRC]

13 minutes ago, DaveC said:

PRC many thanks for the information on John Henry, his brother Arthur aged 5 was my grandfather.

I don't subscribe to Ancestry or FindMyPast so can't check it out, but I assume you are referring to the form W.5080 that is in the surviving service record for Thomas.

Is there enough information on the form to be able to establish when it was completed - it's amazing in my experience how often the bottom section of that form has suffered fire damage and the best you can get is a date stamp for when it was received back at the relevant records office

The form itself asks for age of brothers and sisters - including John Henry this hopefully will then tie up with the estimated age of all the siblings listed.

Perhaps a forum pal with access to either FindMyPast or Fold 3 - both in my experience have better quality images than Ancestry - can have a stab at establishing John Henrys' service number

The six digit service number 210206 came from the block 200001 to 240000 originally allocated to the 5th Battalions of the West Yorkshire Regiment as part of the Territorial Force renumbering at the start of 1917. However I suspect as with other Regiments once they'd drawn down the numbers needed for those currently serving, random blocs were used as men joined any home based training Battalions of the Regiment.

Similary 310206 came from the block 305001 to 330000 allocated to the 8th Battalions of the West Yorkshire Regiment in the same renumbering exercise. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

A quick check of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission database shows no-one with a service number beween 210200 - 210299 or 310200 - 310299 serving with the West Yorkshire Regiment. So either very lucky cohorts, (even some might have died as a result of accident \ illness - think the Spanish flu epidemic), or service numbers not used.

A more thorough search might turn up examples of surving service \ pensions records. However as its likely to be single young men who may have been UK service only it's likely there was little cause for the Army to retain much, if anything, of their records, and they may well have been weeded out of existance in the 1930's even before the Germans bombed the London warehouse where such records were stored.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[George Rayner]

1 hour ago, DaveC said:

ancestry he his mentioned on Thomas army records

I understand your problem with the tablet!

I can’t find any service records in Ancestry for Thomas under either number. Medal roll, index card and pension record.

The medal roll indicates no active service overseas…but then he has a Star on his card!

But I am on my tablet…

George

[PRC]

3 hours ago, George Rayner said:

I can’t find any service records in Ancestry for Thomas under either number.

No doubt more quirky Ancestry indexing FindMyPast have them indexed under both 2059 & 200480 West Riding Regiment, commencing 1914 and born Great Britain c1897.

Familysearch adds they are burnt service records in the WO363 series and that he was resident Halifax, aged 17 when enlisted.

But nothing readily indexed for that name and unit on Ancestry & Fold 3. However Ancestry indexing did give me three matches for service records for a Thomas Varley serving with the West Riding Regiment and one is indexed with next of kin shown as Richard Varley. Dropping the service number and adding Halifax into the keyword search of military records then brought the right service record up.

Cheers,
Peter

[George Rayner]

Thanks for your help Peter…I have now found him.

George