Rifle Brigade insignia in lead up to WW1

[FROGSMILE]

For attention @stiletto_33853 please.  The enclosed badges are both of the same, earlier design, but one is larger than the other and I’m wondering if you can throw any light on what the reason was for the difference in size.

Accepted wisdom is that the larger badge was for the Brodrick badge worn by rank and file and apparently SNCOs (or perhaps only battalion staff with their frogged jackets) were wearing pillbox caps without insignia.

I cannot think with any surety what headdress the smaller badge was for and it’s clearly not a pouch badge, plus it’s larger than the badge for field service cap.  The smaller badge has two loops placed horizontally, and the larger badge a long, vertical shank slider as seen.  I’d be grateful for your considered opinion please?

Could it be for the earliest issues of peaked forage cap that I think became available for officers, WOs and HQ staff sergeants only, initially, in 1902?  Alternatively, could it be an officers badge for the new, drab service dress, of 1902?  It would be great if it’s mentioned in the RB Chronicle!

Edited 26 March by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Please can @stiletto_33853 or @MBrockway help with the date that peaked forage caps of both types were issued to RB and KRRC rank groupings below officer?  Is it mentioned in the Chronicles?  For the First Class Staff it must’ve been a significant event replacing their long-standing pill box type caps.  A reply will be greatly appreciated, even if in the negative. 

Edited 28 March by FROGSMILE

[stiletto_33853]

Just seen this, I will see what I have regarding this matter

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, stiletto_33853 said:

Just seen this, I will see what I have regarding this matter

Thank you I will be very grateful.  Dates will be perfect.

As things stand I think that the First Class Staff (only) probably received rifle green peaked forage caps around the same time as the officers, probably 1902+/-.

Then I’m guessing that the colour sergeants and below probably got theirs between 1905-1906.

What the differential might have been between the two home service and two foreign service battalions I cannot imagine.

There’s also the exact same question regarding the drab khaki SD caps of around that same period?

Regards,

FS

Edited 28 March by FROGSMILE

[MBrockway]

Not the sort of thing covered in the battalion war records section of the KRRC Chronicle, I'm afraid, and the RB Chronicle is likely to be similar.

Astley-Terry in the Uniforms appendix to the Annals (published 1913) has ...

" 1902 - The round forage cap was discontinued in 1902, and a cap of German pattern was adopted throughout the service with a laced peak for field officers"

It's not clear to me if here 'round forage cap' is the version with a peak or the round pillbox cap with no peak.  My understanding was the Rifles did not use the former. 

I read "a cap of German pattern" as the short-lived Brodrick.  KRRC ORs definitely did wear the Brodrick.  Here's an example from 2/KRRC in India ...

I'm not so certain about the Staff Sergeants however:  the 1905 KRRC Chronicle has group portraits of 3/KRRC taken at Aldershot.  All are in full dress.  Corporals and below are wearing the Brodrick, serjeants and above are wearing the pillbox cap, WOs (SM and Bandmaster¹) are in the rifle busby and in what looks like the officers' quality lambs wool.

In 1906, 3/KRRC at Aldershot still had the rankers wearing the Brodrick in full dress, but the Field Service cap in khaki SD:

 

The 1904 Chronicle has similar full dress group portraits of 4/KRRC taken at the Rifle Depot in 1904.  There's no Corporals nor rankers photo.  All the serjeants and staff serjeants are in the sealskin rifle busby.  The two WOs are harder to isolate as there a number of officers and guests in the same photo, but the two most likely are wearing lambswool busbies, large plumes, crossbelts and staff swords.  I would expect the staff serjeants to wear the crossbelt, but there's only one single man in a sealskin busby with a crossbelt.  The photo is from a medal ceremony, so perhaps the battalion staff were not all present.  The image is not good enough to see rank/badge detail.  No-one is in the pillbox cap nor the Brodrick.

This next image shows the KRRC members of the Rifle Depot staff at Gosport in 1903 ...

From the collars, I'm confident the two in khaki SD are staff sergeants and *probably* also the man standing between them in patrols with no shoulder pips.

No chevrons are visible on the upper sleeves and all three are wearing the KRRC 'cherry' corded boss cap badge.

The nominal roll of Staff sergeants names QMS, ORS, Orderly-Room-Clerk (Lance-Sgt) and Officers'-Mess-Sergeant.  The ORC would definitely be showing sergeant's (or even corporal's) chevrons.  QMS and ORS had their badges on the lower sleeve, so that accounts for at least two of the three. 

I'm not sure how the Officers'-Mess-Sergeant was badged.  David Langley's excellent recent book Staff Sergeants of the British Line Infantry regular Battalions 1848 to 1919 lists a canteen sergeant in the 1907 appointments, but I could not find an officers' mess sergeant.  Based on Queen Victoria's Regulations, David states the canteen sergeant of a Depot should always be a pensioner and he leaves the rank badge blank in the table.  Could the third man standing be the Officers'-Mess-Sergeant taking the post of canteen sergeant?

A more likely option is Sergeant-Major - the Rifle Depot Establishment documented in the Special Reserve Army Order 1907 includes SM.  The 1903 KRRC Chronicle mentions a Sergeant-Major Bull in the article about the Depot returning to Winchester from Gosport.  Perhaps Andy could check the 1903 RB Chronicle to see if the Depot SM at this time was a SM Bull from the RB? 

Our chap here is definitely from the 60th, but I cannot find any ref to a KRR SM at the Depot in the 1903 nor 1904 KRRC Chronicles.  I don't have the Army Lists for this period, which would show the WOs,  I only have Harts' Annual List, which do not.

The rest of the Staff Sergeant roles are blank.  The depot's Sergeant-Instructor of Musketry was definitely RB and is one of blank roles, so it's probable the other blanks are also held by RB men.

The OC, Adjutant and QM were all KRRC.  I assume these are the men seated.  Quarter-Master T.M. Riley was by this time Honorary Major.  Adjutant Armytage was a Captain and Mends, the OC, was a full Colonel.

 

The relevance of this photo to your question is of course that if the centre man standing is a staff sergeant, then it dates the wearing of the peaked forage cap by staff sergeants to at least before 28 Mar 1904 when the Depot relocated from Gosport.

 

HTH

Mark

 

¹I have yet to detect a Schoolmaster in a KRRC group photo.

Edited 28 March by MBrockway

[MBrockway]

I should add that I have no images of KRRC staff sergeants wearing the 'staff' Brodrick with the extra piping.

[FROGSMILE]

17 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

Not the sort of thing covered in the battalion war records section of the KRRC Chronicle, I'm afraid, and the RB Chronicle is likely to be similar.

Astley-Terry in the Uniforms appendix to the Annals (published 1913) has ...

" 1902 - The round forage cap was discontinued in 1902, and a cap of German pattern was adopted throughout the service with a laced peak for field officers"

It's not clear to me if here 'round forage cap' is the version with a peak or the round pillbox cap with no peak.  My understanding was the Rifles did not use the former. 

I read "a cap of German pattern" as the short-lived Brodrick.  KRRC ORs definitely did wear the Brodrick.  Here's an example from 2/KRRC in India ...

I'm not so certain about the Staff Sergeants however:  the 1905 KRRC Chronicle has group portraits of 3/KRRC taken at Aldershot.  All are in full dress.  Corporals and below are wearing the Brodrick, serjeants and above are wearing the pillbox cap, WOs (SM and Bandmaster¹) are in the rifle busby and in what looks like the officers' quality lambs wool.

In 1906, 3/KRRC at Aldershot still had the rankers wearing the Brodrick in full dress, but the Field Service cap in khaki SD:

 

The 1904 Chronicle has similar full dress group portraits of 4/KRRC taken at the Rifle Depot in 1904.  There's no Corporals nor rankers photo.  All the serjeants and staff serjeants are in the sealskin rifle busby.  The two WOs are harder to isolate as there a number of officers and guests in the same photo, but the two most likely are wearing lambswool busbies, large plumes, crossbelts and staff swords.  I would expect the staff serjeants to wear the crossbelt, but there's only one single man in a sealskin busby with a crossbelt.  The photo is from a medal ceremony, so perhaps the battalion staff were not all present.  The image is not good enough to see rank/badge detail.  No-one is in the pillbox cap nor the Brodrick.

This next image shows the Rifle Depot staff at Gosport in 1903 ...

From the collars, I'm confident the two in khaki SD are staff sergeants and *probably* also the man standing between them in patrols.

No chevrons are visible on the upper sleeves and all three are wearing the KRRC 'cherry' corded boss cap badge.

The nominal roll lists QMS, ORS, Orderly-Room-Clerk (Lance-Sgt) and Officers'-Mess-Sergeant.  The ORC would definitely be showing sergeant's (or even corporal's) chevrons.  QMS and ORS had their badges on the lower sleeve, so that accounts for at least two of the three. 

I'm not sure how the Officers'-Mess-Sergeant was badged.  David Langley's excellent recent book Staff Sergeants of the British Line Infantry regular Battalions 1848 to 1919 lists a canteen sergeant in the 1907 appointments, but I could not find an officers' mess sergeant.  Based on Queen Victoria's Regulations, David states the canteen sergeant of a Depot should always be a pensioner and he leaves the rank badge blank in the table.  Could the third man standing be the Officers'-Mess-Sergeant taking the post of canteen sergeant?

A more likely option is Sergeant-Major - the Rifle Depot Establishment documented in the Special Reserve Army Order 1907 includes SM.  The 1903 KRRC Chronicle mentions a Sergeant-Major Bull in the article about the Depot returning to Winchester from Gosport.  Perhaps Andy could check the 1903 RB Chronicle to see if the Depot SM at this time was a SM Bull from the RB? 

Our chap here is definitely from the 60th, but I cannot find any ref to a KRR SM at the Depot in the 1903 nor 1904 KRRC Chronicles.  I don't have the Army Lists for this period, which would show the WOs,  I only have Harts' Annual List, which do not.

The rest of the Staff Sergeant roles are blank.  The depot's Sergeant-Instructor of Musketry was definitely RB and is one of blank roles, so it's probable the other blanks are also held by RB men.

The OC, Adjutant and QM were all KRRC.  I assume these are the men seated.  Quarter-Master T.M. Riley was by this time Honorary Major.  Adjutant Armytage was a Captain and Mends, the OC, was a full Colonel.

 

The relevance of this photo to your question is of course that if the centre man standing is a staff sergeant, then it dates the wearing of the peaked forage cap by staff sergeants to at least before 28 Mar 1904 when the Depot relocated from Gosport.

 

HTH

Mark

 

¹I have yet to detect a Schoolmaster in a KRRC group photo.

Mark, thank you, much appreciated as ever.  I’m going to have to research this carefully.  I agree that at first German caps sounds like the Brodrick, but I think it’s actually the peaked forage cap because the new issue was exactly like a German officers cap with its distinctive short peak, but with our field officers only having laced peaks.  On the previous cap all officers had just the pill box type worn perched on side of head with no badge.

I want to keep full dress garments and head gear out of it and focus just on undress as it’s with that dress that the new peaked caps were worn.  I’m conscious that the KRRC staff wore cherry’s, but did the RB?  I thought they wore the silver badge with honours as the officers did?

Bottom line is I’m trying to identify if the badge I posted with loops was the badge worn with the new peaked forage caps as it seems to be the Edward VII pattern badge so the time period matches.

Regards as ever,

FS

P.S. I agree that the central staff sergeant has the look of a mess sergeant to me.

Edited 28 March by FROGSMILE

[MBrockway]

No - the RB did not wear the cherry for any rank/role.

I see what you mean re the laced peak pointing more towards the forage cap than the Brodrick.  Good logic.

Unfortunately photos in both regiments' Chronicles naturally tend to be the more formal full dress type of occasion. Undress photos are few and far between.

Mark

[MBrockway]

Another option for the centre man standing is a Bandmaster detached from a battalion, perhaps serving overseas.

Probably a better bet than a canteen sergeant!

[FROGSMILE]

Just now, MBrockway said:

Another option for the centre man standing is a Bandmaster detached from a battalion, perhaps serving overseas.

Probably a better bet than a canteen sergeant!

Yes I agree it’s a tough call, there’s lots of reasons why an old boy might be at the depot. 

[FROGSMILE]

31 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

No - the RB did not wear the cherry for any rank/role.

I see what you mean re the laced peak pointing more towards the forage cap than the Brodrick.  Good logic.

Unfortunately photos in both regiments' Chronicles naturally tend to be the more formal full dress type of occasion. Undress photos are few and far between.

Mark

I understand what you mean about the paucity of undress photos, that’s why the narrative of any diary type entry mentioning new clothing will be vital.  Presumably there might be at least a few more visual clues in the Chronicle editions spanning 1902-1906.  It’s a simple query really, what else could the badge be for if not that new cap?  If a long slider it would be a Brodrick badge and the Tudor crown indicates Edward VII.  You can see the type of cap I’m talking about in the small photo I posted above of RB in Malta 1904-07.  The officer wears it.  CSgts and below in Brodrick’s.  Ergo First Class Staff (RSM, BM, RQMS in same as officers).

Edited 28 March by FROGSMILE

[MBrockway]

43 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

 ... Sergeant-Major - the Rifle Depot Establishment documented in the Special Reserve Army Order 1907 includes SM.  The 1903 KRRC Chronicle mentions a Sergeant-Major Bull in the article about the Depot returning to Winchester from Gosport.  Perhaps Andy could check the 1903 RB Chronicle to see if the Depot SM at this time was a SM Bull from the RB? 

 

Relax Andy - just reading the 1906 KRRC Chronicle, where the Rifle Depot section lists "WARRANT OFFICER.  Sergeant-Major - E. Bull (Rifle Brigade)"

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

Relax Andy - just reading the 1906 KRRC Chronicle, where the Rifle Depot section lists "WARRANT OFFICER.  Sergeant-Major - E. Bull (Rifle Brigade)"

Good detective work Mark! 

[MBrockway]

Still hunting for something definitive about headgear adoption dates and came across this in the Annals.  Doesn't answer the question, but such a good story!

"For some months the [3rd] Battalion had been under orders for Bermuda, which by some practical joke on the part of the Authorities was turned into a Home Station for a time.   As the Battalion was not due to go abroad again for some years and as, ever since a Battalion of Guards had been sent there under a cloud some fifteen years previously, Bermuda had been looked upon as a penal settlement - most unjustly, as in those days it was a very pleasant station for a short time - a story very quickly got about that they had misbehaved in some way and were being sent there as a punishment.  Before long the story took the definite form that the Battalion had, on receiving an unpopular form of head-dress known as the Brodrick cap - a thing like that worn by a fireman and called after the then Secretary of State - made a bonfire of them in the barrack square.  The story actually appeared in the Press.  This story reached Bermuda before the Battalion did [on 27 Mar 1904], and the fact they arrived without the Brodrick cap was looked upon as proof of its truth.  The true explanation, that they had never had it issued to them, was received with derision."

As we saw higher up however, the reprieve was not permanent as 3/KRRC rank and file were in the Brodrick by late 1905 at Aldershot.  This was their next station, arriving there on 25 Oct 1905.  Given the disdain for the Brodrick in this passage from the Annals, it's not surprising the Staff Sergeants and Sergeants managed to stay in the pillbox cap.

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, MBrockway said:

Still hunting for something definitive about headgear adoption dates and came across this in the Annals.  Doesn't answer the question, but such a good story!

"For some months the [3rd] Battalion had been under orders for Bermuda, which by some practical joke on the part of the Authorities was turned into a Home Station for a time.   As the Battalion was not due to go abroad again for some years and as, ever since a Battalion of Guards had been sent there under a cloud some fifteen years previously, Bermuda had been looked upon as a penal settlement - most unjustly, as in those days it was a very pleasant station for a short time - a story very quickly got about that they had misbehaved in some way and were being sent there as a punishment.  Before long the story took the definite form that the Battalion had, on receiving an unpopular form of head-dress known as the Brodrick cap - a thing like that worn by a fireman and called after the then Secretary of State - made a bonfire of them in the barrack square.  The story actually appeared in the Press.  This story reached Bermuda before the Battalion did [on 27 Mar 1904], and the fact they arrived without the Brodrick cap was looked upon as proof of its truth.  The true explanation, that they had never had it issued to them, was received with derision."

As we saw higher up however, the reprieve was not permanent as 3/KRRC rank and file were in the Brodrick by late 1905 at Aldershot.  This was their next station, arriving there on 25 Oct 1905.  Given the disdain for the Brodrick in this passage from the Annals, it's not surprising the Staff Sergeants and Sergeants managed to stay in the pillbox cap.

 

 

That’s very helpful Mark and suggests that the 3rd Battalion Staff stayed in pill box hats until at least 1905, which was the start year for general issue of peaked caps.  Hopefully it will be possible to work out what happened with the other three battalions.  I’m hoping that Andy will be able to dig something up.

I’m getting confused now, my principal inquiry is for the RB.

Edited 28 March by FROGSMILE

[MBrockway]

5 hours ago, MBrockway said:

No - the RB did not wear the cherry for any rank/role.

 

 

Having said the above, I find this in the Rifle Brigade section of the 1900 army Dress Regulations:

and the accompanying plate:

 .. which suggests the RB wore a corded boss on the Field (Side) Cap.

In WW2 this was definitely true for the side cap for officers of both regiments, worn at the tip of the 'prow' of the cap, but AFAIK, KRRC rank and file wore the Maltese cross cap badge and on the side.  I don't know what the RB practice was.  The 1900 ADRs have other anomalies - e.g. it has the RB wearing collar dogs - so I'm unsure how reliable a source it is.

And of course there was also a black corded boss on the rifle busby for both regiments.

 

Mark

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, MBrockway said:

 

Having said the above, I find this in the Rifle Brigade section of the 1900 army Dress Regulations:

and the accompanying plate:

 .. which suggests the RB wore a corded boss on the Field (Side) Cap.

In WW2 this was definitely true for the side cap for officers of both regiments, worn at the tip of the 'prow' of the cap, but AFAIK, KRRC rank and file wore the Maltese cross cap badge and on the side.  I don't know what the RB practice was.  The 1900 ADRs have other anomalies - e.g. it has the RB wearing collar dogs - so I'm unsure how reliable a source it is.

And of course there was also a black corded boss on the rifle busby for both regiments.

 

Mark

Thanks Mark, got that one in my library.  Mission is just the badge heading up thread 👍

[MBrockway]

16 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Please can @stiletto_33853 or @MBrockway help with the date that peaked forage caps of both types were issued to RB and KRRC rank groupings below officer?  Is it mentioned in the Chronicles?  For the First Class Staff it must’ve been a significant event replacing their long-standing pill box type caps.  A reply will be greatly appreciated, even if in the negative. 

Sorry - I was focussing on the Q above that generated the alert to my email address.

Can't really help with the RB badge you started with, so I'll bow out now.

Cheers,

Mark

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, MBrockway said:

Sorry - I was focussing on the Q above that generated the alert to my email address.

Can't really help with the RB badge you started with, so I'll bow out now.

Cheers,

Mark

I’m grateful for your help as ever, I’d hoped that with the shared depot and combined use of the new rifle green forage cap (plus SD equivalent) that the Ordnance supply chain might have equipped the two large regiments in batches together, starting at Winchester, so that they’d arrive in battalions with newly equipped recruits.  Wishful thinking perhaps.  I’m left just hoping that Andy can find something now in RB archival works.  It seemed to me that such a historical and widespread change of style of headdress would have caused a stir, and some mention in the regimental Chronicles.  It seems odd that there’s not been more as yet. 

Edited 29 March by FROGSMILE

[MBrockway]

47 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I’m grateful for your help as ever, I’d hoped that with the shared depot and combined use of the new rifle green forage cap (plus SD equivalent) that the Ordnance supply chain might have equipped the two large regiments in batches together, starting at Winchester, so that they’d arrive in battalions with newly equipped recruits.  Wishful thinking perhaps.  I’m left just hoping that Andy can find something now in RB archival works.  It seemed to me that such a historical and widespread change of style of headdress would have caused a stir, and some mention in the regimental Chronicles.  It seems odd that there’s not been more as yet. 

No problem - happy to help as always!

I'm sure the Depot supply served both regiments exactly as you say.  It would be 'Business as Usual' so perhaps not felt to merit inclusion in the Rifle Depot chapters of either Chronicle.

In the period 1900-1914, the Depot chapters' main pre-occupations are

• officer postings to Depot Staff, Depot strength, promotions etc.
• medal awards (mostly LSGCs)
• results of the new recruits Musketry course
• drafts sent to the battalions
• competition successes by the shooting teams of the Depot staff
• issuing of the SMLE rifle and its merits
• inspections by red tabs
• the rebuilding & re-opening of the Winchester barracks after the great fire and the relocation thither from Gosport
• the Depot's role in the Boer War
• details of a new messing system rolled out in c.1908
• retirement/deaths of regimental Old Sweats (who often finished their service at the Depot, or settled nearby as pensioners)

Most years also include a nominal roll of WOs, Staff Sergeants and Company Sergeants.

A focus on shooting over clothing is only to be expected in Rifles.

Outwith of Astley-Terry, the only headgear references in the standard regimental works I've found so far are:

1. the return of the popular rifle busby in 1890,;
2. disgust over the 1878 FS Helmet ("the most hideous headdress ever conceived by man and the one least suited to our uniform");
3. relief when it was replaced in 1904 by the Wolseley helmet - the older helmet had to be turned back-to-front when shooting lying down!; and
4. the derision for the Brodrick from 1904 I quoted above.

The first two of these pre-date the start of the KRRC Chronicle, but the other two don't and are not mentioned at all in the Depot reports.

Sadly I fear neither Andy nor I will be able to turn up the nugget you need ... except perhaps via dated/datable photographs.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, MBrockway said:

No problem - happy to help as always!

I'm sure the Depot supply served both regiments exactly as you say.  It would be 'Business as Usual' so perhaps not felt to merit inclusion in the Rifle Depot chapters of either Chronicle.

In the period 1900-1914, the Depot chapters' main pre-occupations are

• officer postings to Depot Staff, Depot strength, promotions etc.
• medal awards (mostly LSGCs)
• results of the new recruits Musketry course
• drafts sent to the battalions
• competition successes by the shooting teams of the Depot staff
• issuing of the SMLE rifle and its merits
• inspections by red tabs
• the rebuilding & re-opening of the Winchester barracks after the great fire and the relocation thither from Gosport
• the Depot's role in the Boer War
• details of a new messing system rolled out in c.1908
• retirement/deaths of regimental Old Sweats (who often finished their service at the Depot, or settled nearby as pensioners)

Most years also include a nominal roll of WOs, Staff Sergeants and Company Sergeants.

A focus on shooting over clothing is only to be expected in Rifles.

Outwith of Astley-Terry, the only headgear references in the standard regimental works I've found so far are:

1. the return of the popular rifle busby in 1890,;
2. disgust over the 1878 FS Helmet ("the most hideous headdress ever conceived by man and the one least suited to our uniform");
3. relief when it was replaced in 1904 by the Wolseley helmet - the older helmet had to be turned back-to-front when shooting lying down!; and
4. the derision for the Brodrick from 1904 I quoted above.

The first two of these pre-date the start of the KRRC Chronicle, but the other two don't and are not mentioned at all in the Depot reports.

Sadly I fear neither Andy nor I will be able to turn up the nugget you need ... except perhaps via dated/datable photographs.

Cheers,

Mark

 

Thanks Mark, I ordinarily would expect only rare comment about dress with any regiment let alone rifle regiments.  In this case I was pinning my hope on comment for two reasons.  First that it was the first peaked headdress to be issued to rifle regiments since the shako, and second that it was the first undress cap badge to be issued to battalion First Class staff for a similar period.  With that in mind it seemed no less likely to elicit comment than the Brodrick or the universal helmet.

Edited 29 March by FROGSMILE

[MBrockway]

20 hours ago, MBrockway said:

This next image shows the KRRC members of the Rifle Depot staff at Gosport in 1903 ... <snip>

From the collars, I'm confident the two in khaki SD are staff sergeants and *probably* also the man standing between them in patrols with no shoulder pips. <snip>

The OC, Adjutant and QM were all KRRC.  I assume these are the men seated.  Quarter-Master T.M. Riley was by this time Honorary Major.  Adjutant Armytage was a Captain and Mends, the OC, was a full Colonel.  <snip>

The relevance of this photo to your question is of course that if the centre man standing is a staff sergeant, then it dates the wearing of the peaked forage cap by staff sergeants to at least before 28 Mar 1904 when the Depot relocated from Gosport.

Wrong!

The man in patrols standing in the centre is QM Major Thomas Riley and NOT a staff sergeant ...

The two in SD are thus most likely to be the QMS, (W. Line) and the ORS (C.H. English).  The officers are the Adjutant (Capt Armytage), the OC (Col Mends) and an unidentified KRRC officer.

[MBrockway]

Although Major Riley does not help us, a closer look at the men in khaki SD suggests they may be wearing the same rifle green forage cap, but with a khaki cover, and not the khaki SD cap.

Perhaps that helps?  The photo is from 1903.

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

Although Major Riley does not help us, a closer look at the men in khaki SD suggests they may be wearing the same rifle green forage cap, but with a khaki cover, and not the khaki SD cap.

Perhaps that helps?  The photo is from 1903.

Brilliant spot Mark, that is quite significant.  Khaki covers were common for officers of all ranks and all regiments caps at that time, but I think that’s the first time I’ve seen it on an NCO.  It also makes sense for First Class Staff in a way that it would not for company SNCOs.