Pte D.F.Ney KLR casualty - help to find his GALWAY parents please

[davidbohl]

Pte #24383 Daniel Francis Ney KLR CWGC

I can't lay my hands on this chaps parents for his biography LiverpoolPals

According to the 1911 census Patrick and Mary were born in Galway and married c.1870, the 1921 census shows a bit more with Patrick being born in Oughterard, Galway. 

Can we find a birth record for them, or marriage (they may have married in the USA as the first 3 children were born there)

many thanks

Dave

[corisande]

The Irish GRO records run from 1865, so you will not find births there. You would have to track down the Parish records

As you say the first 3 children were born USA - from 1881 census

Then one in Ireland, before moving to England

 

Ancestry trees show they believe the mother was Mary O'Flaherty b 21 Mar 1852  in Ballinasloe , Galway . This does not seem to be based on fact

I cannot find either a marriage, nor a birth of the child Joseph in 1879 plus or minus

They also attribute the parents as marrying in 1904 which looks wrong

It looks to me that the problem is in the recording of the name, in other words , if nothing else, you ought to be able to get Joseph born 1879 in Ireland, and its not there

I feel that the marriage should have been in Ireland rather than USA. As you say they indicate a marriage of about 1870 and first child in USA is in 1872/73

[davidbohl]

19 minutes ago, corisande said:

if nothing else, you ought to be able to get Joseph born 1879 in Ireland, and its not there

Thanks for looking Corisande,

I'll have a hunt around 1851 census for the alternatives of the surname Ney around Galway.

[davidbohl]

1 hour ago, corisande said:

if nothing else, you ought to be able to get Joseph born 1879 in Ireland, and its not there

This look promising, uncertain of the place names

From IrishGeneology

 

[Tawhiri]

Definitely looks promising, I can't tell from the extract posted above where they were living in 1881, but if it was in West Derby then this appears to be the birth registration of the youngest daughter, Mary, recorded in the 1881 England and Wales census, with her mother's maiden surname recorded as Ney. It would certainly fit with an infant who was only two months old at the time of the census.

NEY, MARY         Mother's maiden name: NEY

GRO Reference: 1881  M Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 08B  Page 518

There are also a number of other male Ney births registered in the same district from 1883 onward, if you can connect any of those names to the same family.

NEY, JOHN    Mother's maiden name:  NEY  

GRO Reference: 1883  M Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 08B  Page 53

NEY, GEORGE    Mother's maiden name:  NEY  

GRO Reference: 1889  M Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 08B  Page 437

NEY, THOMAS    Mother's maiden name:  NEY  

GRO Reference: 1891  M Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 08B  Page 414  Occasional Copy: A

Edited to add that Daniel's birth seems to have been registered under the surname Nay, as was younger sister Elizabeth's.

NAY, DANIEL    Mother's maiden name: NAY  

GRO Reference: 1885  J Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 08B  Page 448

NAY, ELIZABETH    Mother's maiden name: NAY  

GRO Reference: 1893  M Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 08B  Page 507

Edited 21 March by Tawhiri

[corisande]

2 hours ago, davidbohl said:

uncertain of the place names

Easier than Welsh place names

Patrick was born Oughterard (1921 census)

wife was born Kilkeiran (1921 census)

That birth you have for Joseph is at Roundstone

It is odds on that this is then living for a few years on Co Galway, before going on to England

It gives us the maiden name to work on, which you have done already

 

[davidbohl]

Thanks chaps,

I've found a marriage record in Oughterard for a Mary and Thomas Nee but what is interesting is Mary's father was Bartholomew which is the name of the eldest born in the U.S

From IrishGeneology

 

[corisande]

Try contacting the owner of this tree, which is private, so you cannot access it. but it is a small tree and they look as if they have more on the family

Ancestry Tree= click

[corisande]

I have tried to bring all the evidence together, but I cannot find a flaw in the logic that he was born in 1885 , son of Patrick and Mary (who were married about 1870)

I still feel that the most likely place for the marriage would be Ireland. Emigrants would marry just before leaving Ireland, sometimes at the port of embarkation - in their case they would have married in her parish, or in a port, probably Galway

We have , I think, established Mary's maiden name was also "Ney".

They probably left Ireland as "Nee" arrived in USA as illiterate immigrants, and some official recorded their name as "Ney". This was a common occurrence

• The 1921 census on FmP shows birthplaces of Patrick & Mary
• 

 

• The 1911 census on Ancestry  shows the length of the marriage
• 

 

• The baptism of Daniel Ney, son of Patrick & Mary. in 1885
• 

[corisande]

I have also tried Ellis Island emigrants

click for search engine Ellis Island

But 1870/1875 does not yield much, seems too early for many records

Ditto for boats leaving Ireland

 

[davidbohl]

1 hour ago, corisande said:

I still feel that the most likely place for the marriage would be Ireland.

Yes, I'm sure we have the correct Daniel Ney and as you have suggested I'll contact the family tree. Unless  they have hard copies of something I can't see them having much more than we have established.

Thanks for all you help

[davidbohl]

8 hours ago, corisande said:

Try contacting the owner of this tree

The family have got back to me and they are confident the name is Nee, but can only surmise this is Daniel's father Patt

Name	Patt Nee
Baptism Age	0
Event Type	Baptism
Birth Date	1841
Baptism Date	11 Jan 1841
Baptism Place	Oughterard, Galway, Ireland
Parish Variants	Kilcummin
Diocese	Galway
Father	Patt Nee
Mother	Honour Nee

[corisande]

Looks right, in other words I cannot see any argument against that being him.

It is the right place and the right date. If the family do not have anything more, and it is before state records, then I don't think you can get further

There seems to have been "cousin"/"extended family" marriages. Difficult to say how much if Patrick then married a cousin.

All you are missing now is a 1870 marriage of Patrick & Mary, and with that too I think you have run out of options, unless it is in a Church Register

[Tawhiri]

I did have a look at the church registers earlier today, and couldn’t see an obvious 1870/71 marriage. Like Corisande, I also looked at the Ellis Island records and couldn’t see any obvious matches for the family in the records.

[davidbohl]

Against the odds I think we've done pretty well really, although not quite ringing the bell I'm quite happy with what has been uncovered.

On to the next casualty I think.

Once again many thanks to both of you for your help.

[davidbohl]

1 hour ago, Tawhiri said:

Like Corisande, I also looked at the Ellis Island records

The eldest brother was born in 1872ish in the USA

A big stash of immigration on FamilySearch https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9KZ-K92G-P?view=index&action=view

 

 

[corisande]

You are starting to get in deep now, with "mission creep"

By the same token, this could be him. It would be normal for the husband to go first and secure a job and housing

You would need to research where the "Malta" sailed from in 1871. It appears to be an immigrant ship the went Liverpool/Cork/Boston

But I think this is going down a rabbit hole that will not help you find the marriage