Harry Caine POW 2/6th South Staffordshire

[Sue Mason Williams]

I have just found this post having learned my great uncle Harry Caine enlisted in the 2/6th South Staffs Regiment on 7/4/1915. He became a prisoner of war on 21/3/18 and returned to England from emprisonment 6/12/18.
 

If anyone is able to offer advice on where to find out where he was held I would be very grateful. 
 

 

[Matlock1418]

Sue, Welcome to GWF.

ICRC PoW records - under regimental number 241070 [and in C Coy]

Open the two internal "PA" links to access details https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/3770875/3/2

Seems to have been captured at Bullecourt and I would read [as a non-german speaker] as held at Dulmen and possibly earlier at/via Marchiennes [Hope I've got that right!]

Ahh, ... a Tipton man ... Even though he didn't die I think possibly one for our Tipton expert member @AndyJohnson ??

M

Edited 20 March by Matlock1418
PoW details

[AndyJohnson]

Hi

I agree with Matlock, it's generally wise.

Enlsited April 1915, didn't arrive in France until 25/2/17. Would have been in Dublin at the time of the Easter Rising.

21st March 1918 was the start of the German Spring Offensive (Kaiserslacht) and was a Black Day for the 2/6th. SDGW shows 99 2/6th Other Ranks killed on that day, and also their Commanding Officer Lt Col Stuart Wortley. Probably 3 times that number taken prisoner.

This link is about Stuart Wortley, but gives background: https://petershamremembers.wordpress.com/2014/03/29/john-stuart-wortley-1880-1918/

Unusually for a South Staffs soldier his Service Papers survive, but from what you wrote in your post I think you probably know that,

After capture his first stated location was Marchiennes which is about 20miles NE of Bullecourt where he was captured. Google on Marchiennes POW Camp and you'll get some first-hand stories. In summary, not a nice place. I can see a date of 18 April on that Red Cross page, but I don't know if that's the date of arrival, or date of the document. Safe to say he was there in April. 

The next mention is Dulmen in May 1918. AS PoW Camps go, this didn't seem the worst. An old thread may be of interest: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/86504-dulmen-pow-camp/

Three Tipton men were killed on that day (21 March 1918) serving with the 2/6th South Staffs. One of them was Pte 241604 William Oliver - if you look at: https://www.tiptonremembers.net/index.php/oliver-william-john and look at the 'Action' section it will give a little overview of the action that day.

 

The 6th Bn War History has quite an extensive section on the 21st March (pages 201-202). I think I am OK from a copyright perspective quoting it, if not I am sure someone will tell me.

By the way Sue, where were the Caine's from? I can't immediately find them on the 1901/1911 censuses.

Andy

THE WAR HISTORY OF THE SIXTH BATTALION THE SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE REGT. (T. F) .

(The paragraph breaks are mine, the original text doesn't 'do' paragraphs. Andy)

The morning of March 21st was marked by the normal morning bombardment and an abnormally thick mist, making it impossible to see more than fifty yards ahead. The first symptom of the coming evil was the fact that the normal bombardment did not diminish and cease in the normal way. On the contrary, it increased steadily, and eventually it became terrific, covering the whole area of our lines as far back as the transport. Everywhere were heavy casualties, and notwithstanding the fact that through the mist the first small groups of the enemy were seen to be approaching, "C" Company could not go forward to support the others, because of the great gulf of impassable shelling between them. Of the fate of "A", “B” and “D" Companies there is little to be said.

They were overwhelmed in the mist by the great advance, as a village lying at the foot of a volcano is completely submerged beneath the great stream of down-pouring lava. " C " Company was ordered to hold Railway Reserve Trench to the last, and there, under the command of Captain Jordan, it made its stand. The mist at the time (about a quarter- past eight o'clock) was rising slightly, and the sight it revealed was not a comforting one.

Masses of the enemy, south-cast and soon directly south of Battalion Hqrs. The German bombardment then lifted, in order to avoid its own troops. Battalion Hqrs. were rushed, and the C.O. (Colonel Stuart Wortley) was killed.

For as long as could be " C " Company held on, deprived of a platoon which had been thrown out to a flank, and reinforced instead by occasional remnants of the forward companies, men straggling back as best they could under the burden of their wounds and shell - suffering.

Against an overwhelming mass of advancing enemy, resistance could not be long protracted. Our numbers became less and less, and, making a final stand in the communication trench, "Tank Avenue", the last remnant of the Company was joined from the rear by a returning stream of its own wounded bearing the news that the enemy were in force at the far end also of the trench.

When this remnant had been obliterated by death or wounds, but not until then, the resistance of the Battalion ceased, and the enemy passed through them, towards their transport lines now moved from Ervillers to Douchy.

When the main body of a Battalion is killed or incapacitated there remains, it will be remembered, the personnel of Headquarters and transport. Early in the course of the above events Major Curtis had organised there from a body of thirty to forty men, armed with two Lewis guns, which party had first set itself to defend a position just south of Ecoust. This measure proving of no value, it had been moved to another position, in front and on the north of Mory. Here they stayed throughout the night, and kept off the attacking enemy throughout the thirty hours following. It was not until they discovered themselves, early on the morning of March 23rd, to be isolated and left high and dry by the scattered parties of British troops fighting rearguard actions, that the decision was made to retire.

There is a touch of humour in the fact that from their last position of resistance, a point near Ervillers, they were shifted, after a five-hour stand, not by the enemy but by a message from their own Higher Command, bidding them quit the fighting line altogether and get back to their transport, now withdrawn to Bouzincourt! But the effort they had made did not pass without due appreciation, for Major Curtis, who commanded it, received a bar to his D.S.O., and Lieut. Maitland, his adjutant in the affair, received the M.C.

With the discontinuance of that effort, the resistance of the 2 /6th South Staffords effectively ceased. Its parade strength, including officers hastily summoned back from their courses elsewhere, but even so, arriving too late, was six officers and eighty other ranks! The resistance of the Battalion was thus only extinguished when the Battalion was itself extinct!

 

[charlie2]

 

4 hours ago, AndyJohnson said:

I can see a date of 18 April on that Red Cross page, but I don't know if that's the date of arrival, or date of the document.

It is neither, it is the date the list was received by the the Red Cross in Geneva.

The list PA21440 was sent to the Prussian War Ministry from the camp at Dülmen on 4th April 1918.

The list PA30310, which records his transfer from Dülmen to Limburg an der Lahn, was sent to the War Ministry on 1st May 1918.

Charlie

[AndyJohnson]

Excellent, thank you Charlie

[Sue Mason Williams]

Thank you to everyone who has replied so quickly.  Really appreciate it. 

[Sue Mason Williams]

Andy,

the Claines were from Wolverhampton, 161 Caledonian  Rd

[AndyJohnson]

Sue

Harry's Soldier's Papers and his PoW papers say born Tipton. I can see a birth registered Dudley March qtr 1896 - likely him All Tipton births were registered Dudley.

I can see in 1891 - before Harry's birth - that the Caines (mis-transcribed as Canie) were at 73 Bloomfield Rd, Tipton. Can't find 1901 but by 1911 the Caine's had moved to W'ton, can't tell when.

Harry's Service Papers say born Bloomfield so that address is a possibility.

 

Andy

[Sue Mason Williams]

Thanks Andy. I’m sure you’re right re Tipton as this accords with various census returns. Strangely he and his siblings were baptised in Wolverhampton. Will add to my pile of certificates to order!

Sue