Frederick Walter West

[evandarcy]

Hello, I'm just wondering if anybody would have any information about the 32nd Battalion of the middlesex regiment. That is the battalion that my great great grandfather Frederick Walter West served in. He died on the 27th of February 1918. I was wondering if anybody knows what they would have been doing in the 32nd battalion of the middlesex regiment and what was his cause of death and where he died. Also I would love if anyone has any pictures of him because my grandmother does not have any and she never met him.

[kenf48]

6 hours ago, evandarcy said:

He died on the 27th of February 1918. I was wondering if anybody knows what they would have been doing in the 32nd battalion of the middlesex regiment and what was his cause of death and where he died.

Welcome to the GWF

His service record has survived and includes a newspaper report of his death.  He was found drowned on the beach at Gorleston which was reported  on the 23 February 1918.

Image courtesy of FMP

This is the link to Find My Past (subscription or free trial or local library) presumably also on Ancestry 

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7309669%2F52%2F1021

The 32nd Middlesex was formed from a TF Provisional Battalion formed from Home Service Personnel and did not serve overseas so no war diary and no medals for the men who served in the Battalion throughout the war.  Given the location of his death they were engaged on 'coastal defence' in East Anglia.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-duke-of-cambridges-own-middlesex-regiment/

 

 

[kenf48]

His death is listed on CWGC as 17th February 1918 (not the 27th)

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2802841/f-w-west/

His grave

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/59959787/f-w-west

[Matlock1418]

13 hours ago, evandarcy said:

my great great grandfather Frederick Walter West served in. He died on the 27th of February 1918.

Welcome to GWF

Not withstanding his cause of death his widow and family were able to claim a pension.  [I have seen a case of another drowned man's widow who got rejected because his death in Ireland post-war was deemed his own fault - there must have been considered quite differing circumstances which I can't now fully recall, he'd gone missing from home I think].

WEST seems to have been considered serving at the time of his death as he was/is commemorated by CWGC https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2802841/f-w-west

There are quite a few pension records at WFA/Fold3 - Frederick Walter WEST, 315438, Middlesex Regt., 32nd Bn

Found drowned while on active service, 17.2.18 - this would match the CWGC record  and suit the date of the newspaper article above.

Though I can't do right away, if you are interested, I can later do an interpretation of those records - please let me know

M

Edited 20 March by Matlock1418
add

[evandarcy]

3 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Welcome to GWF

Not withstanding his cause of death his widow and family were able to claim a pension.  [I have seen a case of another drowned man's widow who got rejected because his death in Ireland post-war was deemed his own fault - there must have been considered quite differing circumstances which I can't now fully recall, he'd gone missing from home I think].

WEST seems to have been considered serving at the time of his death as he was/is commemorated by CWGC https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2802841/f-w-west

There are quite a few pension records at WFA/Fold3 - Frederick Walter WEST, 315438, Middlesex Regt., 32nd Bn

Found drowned while on active service, 17.2.18 - this would match the CWGC record  and suit the date of the newspaper article above.

Though I can't do right away, if you are interested, I can later do an interpretation of those records - please let me know

M

I'd love if you could interpret them records.

[evandarcy]

9 hours ago, kenf48 said:

Welcome to the GWF

His service record has survived and includes a newspaper report of his death.  He was found drowned on the beach at Gorleston which was reported  on the 23 February 1918.

Image courtesy of FMP

This is the link to Find My Past (subscription or free trial or local library) presumably also on Ancestry 

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7309669%2F52%2F1021

The 32nd Middlesex was formed from a TF Provisional Battalion formed from Home Service Personnel and did not serve overseas so no war diary and no medals for the men who served in the Battalion throughout the war.  Given the location of his death they were engaged on 'coastal defence' in East Anglia.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-duke-of-cambridges-own-middlesex-regiment/

 

 

This is very very interesting, I have never seen this before. My grandmother never knew what happened to him because her farher (Frederick's son) died when she was 2 from a heart attack which could be the same condition Frederick had. Frederick's wife died a few months after from a "broken heart" so she never received his pension. If you sre interested his brother H.F West's name is Herbert Francis West. Thank you very much for all this information.

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, evandarcy said:

I'd love if you could interpret them records.

My pleasure - through this sort of detail I like to encourage new members to learn more, to stay at GWF and possibly for them to offer a small [or large] voluntary contribution towards the running of GWF - there's a link somewhere on the Home page.  And/or for them to join the WFA  ... There, I've shown the several parts of my hand!!!  Regardless, this is freely given by me since the human side of the war and afterwards interest me most.

You clearly already have something of advance family knowledge of what I can actually deduce from the pension records [though you haven't given his widow's date or place of death], but here goes ....

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

Much is probably self-explanatory but a few interpretations for you and to help avoid potential mis-interpretations

Of course, there was a sad aftermath - his widow, Dora, made an initial claim for a war pension for herself and for a pension allowance(s) for her children under the prevailing Royal Warrant [which in this case would initially have been the 1918 RW] - Article 11 [widow] and Article 12 [child(ren)].  There are Pension Index Cards and Pesnion ledger Pages at the Western Front Association/Fold3 [unfortunately a rather less commonly visited source of info] - this is probably the most informative PIC [though I will also make comments based on the other records]

This PIC was in the soldier’s name and there was/is another briefer card in the widow’s name so they could be cross-referenced/accessed.  These came from/lead to a ledger page(s) via the claim case references and then to an awards file. Unfortunately, the initial ledger is lost [probably destroyed, possibly since it was superseded by events] and the awards file probably deliberately destroyed once its use was passed [as was the common case]

The original Case No. 3304 claim reference was largely replaced by a later Ministry of Pensions one of 13/W/2547 - the 13 representing pension region 13 [South Ireland Region] - more of this later

Form 104-88 received  = Death notification of a married man sent from the man’s Record Office to the War Office.

Date of notification of death: It is rather unclear as to whom this notification was being made but one might think it is likely to be to his widow given the first 18.2.18 date shown.  The second ticked date may perhaps be further confirmation at the MoP.

Form 104-76 received = Declaration made by the Widow of a Soldier in support of claim to pension for herself and children

Date of birth: 12.12.85 = his widow’s - required because her pension could be age-related/supplemented if she was >45 [which she obviously was not]. Such an age banding of pension is believed to address the less likely possibility of re-marriage with increasing age.

The standard pension initially paid to his widow was 27/11 per week from 12.8.18 [there usually was an approx. six-month gap between death and paying of a pension - to allow for any possible presumption of death and for calculation] - in the meantime standard Separation Allowances continued to be paid – so, unlike what many observers think when they first see such a card, there was not a complete absence of monies in the intervening period]. Possibly quicker since his body was recovered and the Found drowned while on active service circumstance of death in the UK could easily be determined thanks to the Coroner.

1918 RW: 16/3 pw for the widow [<45y] of a pension Class III NCO/Sgt plus increments of 6/8 [80d] and 5/- [60d] The nicely rounded figures in pence for the children make you wonder if those figures really were the cost of raising a child(ren) or if they just made things simpler for the pension clerks [I suspect the latter]

The child(ren)'s allowance(s) were paid to their mother, typically until they reached 16 when such payments ceased [occasionally up to 21 if they were in some form of further vocational training or sometimes if they had impairment/disability] - then the child(ren) would certainly be expected to go out to work to earn their keep. Or paid until the earlier death of a child. Hence their recorded dates.

She also got £5 Grant - as was usual, helped by his body being quickly recovered, this was quite swiftly awarded - a grant to cover urgent expenses arising from her husband's death - often for mourning dress [though not worn much at that time of the war], sometimes for moving home [typically downsizing as she would no longer be expected to keep a home in the same level of comfort as her husband might have expected had he returned!] - commonly used for local newspaper death notice inserts [these quite often had a photo = so a good place to search, e.g at British Newspaper Archive or through Find my Past]

N/S = is thought to potentially mean 'Non-Standard’, or something rather similar i.e. special treatment/calculation required.

S.A. = Separation Allowance - A portion of a soldier's pay which was matched by the government and sent to his dependants to make sure they were not left destitute while he was on active service.  SA were often slightly more generous than pensions and children’s allowances because a wife had to maintain a home in the same level of comfort as before ready for her husband’s return whilst a widow did not have such a need and costs – after all, apparently, she could then cut back and down-size her home!  Typically, the No. for whom SA is paid on the card reflected the number of children – as we can see here

50F is Form 50F used to cease the Separation Allowance and start the pension.

I think the WDU 3201 was possibly a certificate identity number to allow for the collection of the pension and allowances from a Post Office - but I am rather more cautious about that.

DEAD,1926 indicates the claim became dead eventually - likely because her youngest child reached 16.  This raises the question had his widow remarried [and lost her pension in favour of a one-off remarriage gratuity/bounty] or had she died by then? - You appear to already know she had died.

In fact that she had likely died is seen in the reference to Lawrence GALVIN, Guardian [he is seen on other PIC, 13/W/2547 and PLP - with a new dependant's claim reference of 13/D/632] - Though not the description and quanta are not indicated in these records he could claim a "Motherless child" rate for each of the children [possibly initially at 10/- and 9/3 pw respectively under the 1918 RW, until they reached 16]

The printer's marks at the bottom show the printing dates [8/16 & 6/17] and large numbers [batches of 25,000] of these index cards sadly required to be used to help manually administer pensions using ledgers and files [by a small army of pension clerks, most of them female - No computers in those days!].

I hope that interpretation of the PIC has been of interest/added value for you.

• Images of other PIC and PLP available by subscription at the Western Front Association https://www.westernfrontassociation.com [highly recommended since for relatively low cost membership the WFA site offers good insight into pensions and pension records and it offers so much more as well!] and/or by subscription to Fold3.

Furthermore ...

The children's names and birth dates should likely help you find out their mother's maiden surname, if you don't already know it. [Probably at GRO for E&W, however their website is down at the moment]

And then their parent's marriage should also likely be locatable .

For Frederick Walter's and Dora's marriage I'm finding a possibility at FreeBMD - Stanmore not being far away:

Marriages Mar 1908   (>99%) [March qtr of J, F & M]

Surname     First name(s)        District   Vol Page 

Javan          Dora                    Hendon  3a3 43  

WEST           Frederick Walter  Hendon  3a 343

So it seems probably worth checking the children's details at GRO [or wherever]

His widow would later typically get the balance of her late husband’s pay/’Effects’ and possibly a War Gratuity [based on the length of his War Service] – possibly through a soldier’s Will not located] or as NoK - But surely those, like her relatively small pension [often well below his former income], wouldn’t have really made up for the loss of a husband and father – Possibly resulting in what you have described.   Typically see the Army’s Register of Soldiers’ Effects [A financial ledger - From the National Army Museum now typically available via Ancestry].  Worth looking out for a RoSE entry would seem likely - there is one that seems likely to be his at Ancestry [I can't access].

All the best.

M

Edited 20 March by Matlock1418
add

[evandarcy]

2 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

My pleasure - through this sort of detail I like to encourage new members to learn more, to stay at GWF and possibly for them to offer a small [or large] voluntary contribution towards the running of GWF - there's a link somewhere on the Home page.  And/or for them to join the WFA  ... There, I've shown the several parts of my hand!!!  Regardless, this is freely given by me since the human side of the war and afterwards interest me most.

You clearly already have something of advance family knowledge of what I can actually deduce from the pension records [though you haven't given his widow's date or place of death], but here goes ....

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

Much is probably self-explanatory but a few interpretations for you and to help avoid potential mis-interpretations

Of course, there was a sad aftermath - his widow, Dora, made an initial claim for a war pension for herself and for a pension allowance(s) for her children under the prevailing Royal Warrant [which in this case would initially have been the 1918 RW] - Article 11 [widow] and Article 12 [child(ren)].  There are Pension Index Cards and Pesnion ledger Pages at the Western Front Association/Fold3 [unfortunately a rather less commonly visited source of info] - this is probably the most informative PIC [though I will also make comments based on the other records]

This PIC was in the soldier’s name and there was/is another briefer card in the widow’s name so they could be cross-referenced/accessed.  These came from/lead to a ledger page(s) via the claim case references and then to an awards file. Unfortunately, the initial ledger is lost [probably destroyed, possibly since it was superseded by events] and the awards file probably deliberately destroyed once its use was passed [as was the common case]

The original Case No. 3304 claim reference was largely replaced by a later Ministry of Pensions one of 13/W/2547 - the 13 representing pension region 13 [South Ireland Region] - more of this later

Form 104-88 received  = Death notification of a married man sent from the man’s Record Office to the War Office.

Date of notification of death: It is rather unclear as to whom this notification was being made but one might think it is likely to be to his widow given the first 18.2.18 date shown.  The second ticked date may perhaps be further confirmation at the MoP.

Form 104-76 received = Declaration made by the Widow of a Soldier in support of claim to pension for herself and children

Date of birth: 12.12.85 = his widow’s - required because her pension could be age-related/supplemented if she was >45 [which she obviously was not]. Such an age banding of pension is believed to address the less likely possibility of re-marriage with increasing age.

The standard pension initially paid to his widow was 27/11 per week from 12.8.18 [there usually was an approx. six-month gap between death and paying of a pension - to allow for any possible presumption of death and for calculation] - in the meantime standard Separation Allowances continued to be paid – so, unlike what many observers think when they first see such a card, there was not a complete absence of monies in the intervening period]. Possibly quicker since his body was recovered and the Found drowned while on active service circumstance of death in the UK could easily be determined thanks to the Coroner.

1918 RW: 16/3 pw for the widow [<45y] of a pension Class III NCO/Sgt plus increments of 6/8 [80d] and 5/- [60d] The nicely rounded figures in pence for the children make you wonder if those figures really were the cost of raising a child(ren) or if they just made things simpler for the pension clerks [I suspect the latter]

The child(ren)'s allowance(s) were paid to their mother, typically until they reached 16 when such payments ceased [occasionally up to 21 if they were in some form of further vocational training or sometimes if they had impairment/disability] - then the child(ren) would certainly be expected to go out to work to earn their keep. Or paid until the earlier death of a child. Hence their recorded dates.

She also got £5 Grant - as was usual, helped by his body being quickly recovered, this was quite swiftly awarded - a grant to cover urgent expenses arising from her husband's death - often for mourning dress [though not worn much at that time of the war], sometimes for moving home [typically downsizing as she would no longer be expected to keep a home in the same level of comfort as her husband might have expected had he returned!] - commonly used for local newspaper death notice inserts [these quite often had a photo = so a good place to search, e.g at British Newspaper Archive or through Find my Past]

N/S = is thought to potentially mean 'Non-Standard’, or something rather similar i.e. special treatment/calculation required.

S.A. = Separation Allowance - A portion of a soldier's pay which was matched by the government and sent to his dependants to make sure they were not left destitute while he was on active service.  SA were often slightly more generous than pensions and children’s allowances because a wife had to maintain a home in the same level of comfort as before ready for her husband’s return whilst a widow did not have such a need and costs – after all, apparently, she could then cut back and down-size her home!  Typically, the No. for whom SA is paid on the card reflected the number of children – as we can see here

50F is Form 50F used to cease the Separation Allowance and start the pension.

I think the WDU 3201 was possibly a certificate identity number to allow for the collection of the pension and allowances from a Post Office - but I am rather more cautious about that.

DEAD,1926 indicates the claim became dead eventually - likely because her youngest child reached 16.  This raises the question had his widow remarried [and lost her pension in favour of a one-off remarriage gratuity/bounty] or had she died by then? - You appear to already know she had died.

In fact that she had likely died is seen in the reference to Lawrence GALVIN, Guardian [he is seen on other PIC, 13/W/2547 and PLP - with a new dependant's claim reference of 13/D/632] - Though not the description and quanta are not indicated in these records he could claim a "Motherless child" rate for each of the children [possibly initially at 10/- and 9/3 pw respectively under the 1918 RW, until they reached 16]

The printer's marks at the bottom show the printing dates [8/16 & 6/17] and large numbers [batches of 25,000] of these index cards sadly required to be used to help manually administer pensions using ledgers and files [by a small army of pension clerks, most of them female - No computers in those days!].

I hope that interpretation of the PIC has been of interest/added value for you.

• Images of other PIC and PLP available by subscription at the Western Front Association https://www.westernfrontassociation.com [highly recommended since for relatively low cost membership the WFA site offers good insight into pensions and pension records and it offers so much more as well!] and/or by subscription to Fold3.

Furthermore ...

The children's names and birth dates should likely help you find out their mother's maiden surname, if you don't already know it. [Probably at GRO for E&W, however their website is down at the moment]

And then their parent's marriage should also likely be locatable .

For Frederick Walter's and Dora's marriage I'm finding a possibility at FreeBMD - Stanmore not being far away:

Marriages Mar 1908   (>99%) [March qtr of J, F & M]

Surname     First name(s)        District   Vol Page 

Javan          Dora                    Hendon  3a3 43  

WEST           Frederick Walter  Hendon  3a 343

So it seems probably worth checking the children's details at GRO [or wherever]

His widow would later typically get the balance of her late husband’s pay/’Effects’ and possibly a War Gratuity [based on the length of his War Service] – possibly through a soldier’s Will not located] or as NoK - But surely those, like her relatively small pension [often well below his former income], wouldn’t have really made up for the loss of a husband and father – Possibly resulting in what you have described.   Typically see the Army’s Register of Soldiers’ Effects [A financial ledger - From the National Army Museum now typically available via Ancestry].  Worth looking out for a RoSE entry would seem likely - there is one that seems likely to be his at Ancestry [I can't access].

All the best.

M

Thank you very much for all this, it is very interesting. My grandmother said that Dora's maiden name was Galvin but I have only ever found records listing her surname as Jarvan. I think Lawrence Galvin might be her brother or possibly father.

I have Ancestry so I was able to look at Frederick's RoSE, I have added the file from the Army's Register of Soldiers' Effects.

I was also wondering how I would find some pictures of Frederick if there are any becahse my grandmother never saw what he looked like and had no pictures.

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, evandarcy said:

I was also wondering how I would find some pictures of Frederick if there are any becahse my grandmother never saw what he looked like and had no pictures.

The usual suggestion is to look in local newspapers of the time - typically to look in the British Newspaper Archive https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk , I think searching is free - I seem to recall in the past/now [?] you could then even get three free pages as a taster [also available via Find My Past I believe]

The Army did not generally have individual photos of most soldiers [except for a for high awards for gallantry medals] - most were private purchase [taken for fairly obvious reasons - pride and just-in-case] - for some, but not all, soldiers they typically turn up being published in local newspapers after training, on deployment, having sent a reported/published letter home, leave, wounding, medal award and/or death.

Clearly not all soldier or their families could afford or be bothered with publishing photos so they are by no means universal.

I wish you the very best of luck, but no promises.

M

Edit: Only a quick search using "Frederick West" Middlesex and "Frederick West" Gorleston and "Frederick West" Stanmore ... all I could find [not see in full detail] was:

TRAGIC DEATH OP A SOLDIER

... DEATH OP A SOLDIER A MYSTERY OF THE SEA inquest was held by the Borough Coroner (Mr. G. F. D. Picstonl Gorleston. Monday, the body of Sergeant Frederick West, a soldier, aged 34. which was recovered from the sea. Corpl. H. S. West, brother of deceased, serving ...

Published: Saturday 23 February 1918
Newspaper: Yarmouth Independent

TRAGIC DEATH OP A SOLDIER

... body of Sergeant Frederick West, a soldier, aged 34. which was recovered from the sea. Corpl. H. S. West, brother of deceased, serving in same regiment, said that civil life his brother was a carman, married, and his home was at Stanmore Hill, Great Staumore ...

Published: Saturday 23 February 1918
Newspaper: Yarmouth Independent

 

Edited 21 March by Matlock1418
Edit:

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, evandarcy said:

I have Ancestry so I was able to look at Frederick's RoSE, I have added the file from the Army's Register of Soldiers' Effects.

RoSE shows the distribution of his Effects to his widow, Dora, and his War Gratuity to the Guardian of his children,Lawrence Galvin - the WG is particularly handy.

The £11 WG can usually be back-calculated to give his date of enlistment to an accuracy of approx. one month.

I am by no means an expert of back-calculation - I think he enlisted 28 months before his Feb 1918 death - so enlisted in Oct/Nov 1915 - so just before Conscription under the Military Service Act 1916 came in. [I really hope another member can please check my calculation] Struck-through because of extra doubts arising because I certainly have omitted any potential adjustment for his rank.

M

Edit: My back-calc seems to differ from the newspaper article which suggests he had been serving from the end of 1914 = ??? And then thinking aghain about his rank = So if his service record survives, as has been suggested above, then I suggest enlistment date should be re-visited.

Edited 21 March by Matlock1418
Edit and then strike-through

[Matlock1418]

36 minutes ago, evandarcy said:

My grandmother said that Dora's maiden name was Galvin but I have only ever found records listing her surname as Jarvan

GRO is back up and running ... Children's births at GRO now offer JARVIN as a further alternative

WEST, FREDERICK  DAVID WALTER	JARVIN
GRO Reference: 1908  M Quarter in HENDON  Volume 03A  Page 274

WEST, THOMAS  JOHN	GALVIN
GRO Reference: 1910  J Quarter in HENDON  Volume 03A  Page 379

M

[JMB1943]

Matlock,

In your second post, the pension claim card appears to show the regiment as 32nd S.F. Middlesex---the "S.F." has me puzzled; could you comment on this?

Regards,

JMB

[Matlock1418]

28 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

In your second post, the pension claim card appears to show the regiment as 32nd S.F. Middlesex---the "S.F." has me puzzled; could you comment on this?

Puzzled me too! 

Not my subject matter really [at all really!] - I would commonly without any definitive proof potentially speculatively suspect a historic scribing-transcription error [or likely a later web-transcription error] and that this SF [or something like it, such as SR] might/should have been TF/Territorial Force [or perhaps SR/Special Reserve] - but to me and my very limited knowledge in these matters both those options seem most uncertain for 32 MR = ???

LLT https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-duke-of-cambridges-own-middlesex-regiment has only this to say:

32nd Battalion
On 1 January 1917, the 63rd Provisional Bn became the 32nd Middlesex. It had been formed in June 1915 from Home Service personnel. Remained in UK throughout the war.

??? Special Force ???  I could go on with a lot more speculative punts - however I will spare us all.

= Down to somebody else to please answer for us I hope.

M

Edited 21 March by Matlock1418
add

[kenf48]

10 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

Matlock,

In your second post, the pension claim card appears to show the regiment as 32nd S.F. Middlesex---the "S.F." has me puzzled; could you comment on this?

Regards,

JMB

I think it's a cursive 'T' not an 'S'.  Compare it to the S in "Sgt" and "Street" and the 'T' in Thomas (although the latter appears to be a different hand).

His six digit number indicates a TF soldier serving in the 32nd  TF Battalion.

[JMB1943]

Ken,

Thank you for nailing it!

Regards,

JMB