chasman Posted 19 March Share Posted 19 March Seeking information on the following casualty from the 1/89th Punjabis. His name Shah Amhad Khan, not to be confused with his namesake who also served with the 1/89th Punjabis and won the Victoria Cross!... The man I am looking at is 2970 Sepoy Shah Amhad Khan who is commemorated on the Basra Memorial, his death date 10 May 1916. From that date I can assume he died in captivity after the Siege of Kut. What I really need to know going by his service number (2970) is from when he served, if it was from 1914? If so, then he saw a lot of action, at Aden, Egypt, Gallipoli, France and Mesopotamia, his number indicates to me but doesn't confirm if he was a 1914 entrant, can anyone help to confirm this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 23 March Share Posted 23 March A look at the numbers for other men from 89th Punjabis who died may help. 2976 Sepoy Nawab Khan died on 20th March 1916, so Shah would have enlisted before this date. 3347 Sepoy Bhukhan Singh died on 11th March 1916. His high number means that Shah probably enlisted some time before 11th March. The majority of deaths before 10th May are for men with lower numbers than Shah, implying he was not a 1914 entrant, but possibly late 1915 or early 1916. Only 7 men out of about 130 deaths had numbers higher than Shah. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasman Posted 23 March Author Share Posted 23 March Thanks Alf, always difficult with limited information. I am pretty certain that Shah was at Kut, henceforth he would have been in Mesopotamia for some time, from the early part of 1916. The 1/89th had seen a lot of action in a very short period from 1914-16. Not sure where their numbering sequence began, still a bit of a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew B. Posted 24 March Share Posted 24 March The 89th Punjabi's were not among the units defending Kut. Kut was besieged from December 1915. They landed in Mespot in January 1916. and they were part of the relief attempts. In this situation I would download the regiment war diary from the National Archive - it should give you a good feel for what he was involved in prior to his death - he may (but only may) get a mention in the war diary. If you create an account you can down load it for free. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7356081 Kind regards, Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasman Posted 24 March Author Share Posted 24 March Matthew, thanks for this... I am helping an organisation to commemorate Shah with final prayers as I don't believe he received them, so I have to get the facts right. I can only imagine what the relief efforts must have been like, I had assumed because of the date of his death he was involved in the siege. Struggling to get the information required, not able to get my head around the archives business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew B. Posted 24 March Share Posted 24 March (edited) Hi again. Only too happy to help. As to the National Archives, registering is free. Here is the link: https://secure.nationalarchives.gov.uk/Login/register?wtrealm=https%3A%2F%2Fdiscovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk%2F&wreply=https%3A%2F%2Fdiscovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk%2F Once you have done it, make sure you are logged in on the NA site and follow the link I gave before. You will find now the war diary is free to download, and just follow the instructions on screen. Kind regards, Matthew Edited 25 March by Matthew B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasman Posted 25 March Author Share Posted 25 March Thanks Matthew, most appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasman Posted 29 March Author Share Posted 29 March The National Archives don't seem to hold anything relating to war diaries with the 1/89th Punjabis, information seems to limited to a small number of medal cards. I have been informed the 1/89th were decimated during the relief efforts at Kut el Amara. Shah seems to have survived those efforts only to die later in what must have been captivity as a prisoner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 29 March Share Posted 29 March Whilst it has limits, and I believe details are sparse, records on Punjabi soldiers from WW1 were found in an archive in Lahore, and have been digitised within the past several years. This thread makes reference to that website. I hope this is of interest to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew B. Posted 29 March Share Posted 29 March (edited) 1 hour ago, chasman said: The National Archives don't seem to hold anything relating to war diaries with the 1/89th Punjabis, information seems to limited to a small number of medal cards. I have been informed the 1/89th were decimated during the relief efforts at Kut el Amara. Shah seems to have survived those efforts only to die later in what must have been captivity as a prisoner. Hi. No - if you login and clicked this link: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/58215ed60c19441c9df7d008fddbcaea This is the 89th Punjabis war diary for Jan to Aug 1916 in Mespot - this will cover the 10 May action. As its all hand written you may have to take some time deciphering it. As I said before he the 89th Punjabis were not part of the Kut garrison. Regards, Matthew Edited 29 March by Matthew B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasman Posted 29 March Author Share Posted 29 March Thanks Matthew... Yes I got it. Looking through it there is a lot of information, but not for May 10. The 89th were in a lot of action, particularly on April 17/18, would this have been part of the relief of Kut effort?... Alongside the Jullundur Brigade who I recognise from the units described, the Connaught Rangers (who seem to pop up everywhere), the 23rd Mountain Battery and the 14th and 66th RFA they faced the might of the 2nd and 35th Turkish Divisions. Maybe we have Shah being wounded here and subsequently dying of wounds three or so weeks later or maybe he could have been taken prisoner, however had he been so, the date of death would probably not have been established? Still some more looking to do, but I must be getting closer. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew B. Posted 29 March Share Posted 29 March (edited) Hi, Yes, as I wrote before the 89th Punjabis they were part of the relief of Kut effort's. The were part of the 7th Indian Infantry Brigade in the 3rd (LAHORE) Indian Division. You may want to track down a copy of this book too: Geoghegan, Col NM, and Campbell, Capt MHA History of the 1st Battalion 8th Punjab Regiment. Publishers - Aldershot: Gale & Polden in 1928 The 1st Battalion 8th Punjab Regiment is the post 1922 Indian Army reorganisation title of what had been the 89th Punjabis. Your in luck as the book was reprinted last year and is available on Amazon and is not expensive. Regards Matthew p.s. It very possible he was not a battle casualty but died of disease - an awful lot did. Edited 29 March by Matthew B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasman Posted 29 March Author Share Posted 29 March That's great, thanks, I will look that one up. Just found some more information relating to the Actions of 4 May, marked 'Secret' - a lot unreadable, however there is a reference to 'Garrison' clearly marked, but the siege was over by then. Going back to Alf McM and his comments, I still can't ascertain exactly when Shah's service number (2970) was actually issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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