Archibald Robertson No. 363372

[Livy]

The family story about my grandfather, Archibald Robertson, Reg No. 363372, was that he served in the trenches in France. However his military records are not clear on this point. Status B11 ( he was missing an eye when he enlisted) in February 1916, he was appointed to the Royal West Kent Regiment in April 1917 and attached to the Royal Engineers. He embarks in July 1917 - B.E.F. 8th Bttn or Depot. By February 1918, he appears to be with the 24 Base Park Company  and is then attached to 829 A.E. Company. On one document he is listed as a checker but it is unclear what company he is at the time. By April 1919, he appears to be posted to R.E.Stores Sec. 32 Base Park Company ( if I interpret the writing correctly) and then by June 1919, is posted back to Details Royal West Kent Regiment  before being furloughed in October 1919 and demobilized in November. Throughout these various moves, his location is  sometimes listed as Field.  Would any of these postings indicate he was in the trenches as the family believes? 

The story goes on that the family lost track of him after the end of the war and that my great grandfather went to France, searched the military hospitals and found him sick with the Spanish flu. He in theory brought my grandfather home where my grandmother did not recognize the "scarecrow" of a man. Archie's records show he did get leave in February 1919 for 19 days in the UK. and then goes back to France.( the posting to 32 Base Park Company)  However there are no medical records of hospitalization for flu. Is this part of the story at all plausible? 

I appreciate anything you can tell me that would flesh out my grandfather's story.

[kenf48]

 Thousands of soldiers were 3rd Echelon or Lines of Communications troops. They served in France a Flanders, or other ‘theatres of war’, but not necessarily in the front line.

There is a ratio of how many soldiers are required to support ‘the tip of the spear’ estimates vary but 10 to 1 seems a reasonable average

 

 

[Livy]

3 hours ago, Livy said:

Thank you for this explanation. I've been unable to sort out if Base Park Companies or AE Companies were located far back from the front lines or closer to the trenches which might explain why the family believed that my grandfather was in the trenches. So do I understand that it is possible he might have done a job with these companies that would have brought him into contact with the trenches? 

 

[TEW]

You could look at the diary for 24 BP. It only runs to Dec 1916 but should explain what their role was.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/717fe3eab9f743e79747a4770eb16cc9

Can't see the same for 829 Coy. Not actually sure what AE stands for.

There's a form for when he's demobbed in Oct 19 in Abancourt?which doesn't indicate any medical condition as far as I can see.  Although there is water damage to other forms and of course forms could be completely missing.

I'm not sure what the LOCATED stamp means for 21/6/19 which is 2 weeks ish after being posted back to RWK.

TEW

 

[Livy]

Thank you for the National Archives suggestion for the 24 Base Park Camp. As you say , at least it will get me closer to figuirng out generally what Archibald might have done during the war and whether that placed him in contact with the trenches. . I think the A.E. must mean Area Employment Company? I haven't however been able to locate information on 829 specifically and am still not sure what these companies did and how they differed from the base park companies. On the flu question, do you know if  it was unusual for soldiers to get leave to go back to the UK for a couple of weeks? I'm wondering if it is the time when Archibald's father in law went to France to locate him......  I also wondered about the Located stamp but again have been unable to sort that out. It seems unlikely that the military losr track of him so it must have another meaning. So appreciate your research and knowledge.

[kenf48]

13 hours ago, Livy said:

he story goes on that the family lost track of him after the end of the war and that my great grandfather went to France, searched the military hospitals and found him sick with the Spanish flu. He in theory brought my grandfather home where my grandmother did not recognize the "scarecrow" of a man. Archie's records show he did get leave in February 1919 for 19 days in the UK. and then goes back to France.( the posting to 32 Base Park Company)  However there are no medical records of hospitalization for flu. Is this part of the story at all plausible?

It's 'not proven' but as you have observed there is no notification on his record that he was ever hospitalised with influenza. No reason is given for the extension to his leave, it may have been medical but we simply do not know. 

He was admitted to a medical facility in September 1917 with Inter Connective Tissue injury this was common in the trenches and may have been symptom  of 'Trench Fever' see

https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/world-war-i-articles/trench-diseases-of-the-first-world-war/

The war diary will as suggested give and indication of his duties but the Royal Engineers had a very diverse roll in construction of buildings but also cemeteries, canteens, bath houses, in fact just about anything. His work may have taken him to the trenches but it should be remembered that even front line soldiers spent very few days in the front line.  They were rotated through at a Brigade level, front line 5 days on average, then into the reserve line and then the support line. They then went into billets and another Brigade took over.  This constant rotation was a feature of the BEF at all levels.  Camps were built by the RE close to the front line; trenches dug according to instruction; cemeteries created bodies recovered and buried it is almost endless any of these duties could have taken him close to the front line trenches.  One only has to look at contemporary military maps to see how far the network of trenches and associated camps etc extended beyond the front line.  The 'trenches' were built to provide protection from artillery/machine gun fire and the panoply of industrial warfare. The whole of Northern France and Flanders was a network of huge military camps from the ports to the Base Depots and beyond with tens of thousands of men who had to be housed and fed.

As for 829 AE Coy this is not recorded in Lee and Starling No Labour No Battle it jumps from 821-827, then 835 to 847

829 is listed but as an Artisan Company see https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-corps-of-royal-engineers-in-the-first-world-war/artizan-works-companies-of-the-royal-engineers/

It seems the Artizan Companies had rather a chequered existence as far as naming went and their war diaries are few and far between This one  is for 927 Area Employment Company (Artizan) which again gives a flavour of their work.

I don't think family stories can be dismissed out of hand but after more than a hundred years they can get corrupted. The family probably lost track of him due to frequent moves both those of him and the various units, it was not like following, say, the movements of a soldier in an infantry battalion. After his final transfer to the RE he was demobilised from the Army to the Class Z Reserve in the normal way, on the 25th November 1919 at Chatham, that  reserve obligation ending on March 31 1920.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/british-army-reserves-and-reservists/

[Livy]

Many thanks for this information and it does begin to make sense of what my aunt remembered of her father's time in WW1. All I  remember as a child was him saying the "Men were so hungry, they ate axle grease" and his common inquiry about health was " Are you in one piece?" Both I assume came from that war time experience.  Again, my thanks for helping me flesh out at at least a general sense of what his life might have been. 

[Livy]

My grandfather, Archibald Robertson, Reg. # 363372, served initially with the 24 Base Park Company, R.E. and then was attached to the 829 Area Employment Company. ( He was B2 status). I know that this kind of company was created later in the war and have seen listings of the jobs that they carried out. However I still do not understand how they operated. Were they attached to an army unit to provide these services closer to the front or  were they attached to a place like Abancourt and Blargies to provide those services as the troops rotated off? My grandmother believed her husband was"stuck in the trenches" but that doesn't seem likely. Archie was a barber before mobilization. I'm wondering if it is possible he was attached to an AE, and maybe cut hair as part of the bath and laundry function. 

Any information to help me understand AE's function, location  and operation would be most appreciated. 

[Matlock1418]

LLT have this to say about AE Companies https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-labour-corps-of-1917-1918/area-employment-companies-of-the-labour-corps-in-france-and-flanders

Starling & Lee's "No Labour, No Battle" about the Labour Corps might also help you.

M

[kenf48]

54 minutes ago, Livy said:

My grandfather, Archibald Robertson, Reg. # 363372, served initially with the 24 Base Park Company, R.E. and then was attached to the 829 Area Employment Company. ( He was B2 status). I know that this kind of company was created later in the war and have seen listings of the jobs that they carried out. However I still do not understand how they operated. Were they attached to an army unit to provide these services closer to the front or  were they attached to a place like Abancourt and Blargies to provide those services as the troops rotated off? My grandmother believed her husband was"stuck in the trenches" but that doesn't seem likely. Archie was a barber before mobilization. I'm wondering if it is possible he was attached to an AE, and maybe cut hair as part of the bath and laundry function. 

Any information to help me understand AE's function, location  and operation would be most appreciated. 

I've merged your posts and retitled the topic.

One soldier one thread avoids duplication of efforts by members of the GWF

As previously noted 829 is listed as an Artizan Company  by Lee and Starling and a link was provided to the LLT

[Livy]

Thanks- I wasn't sure if I should try a topic separately or not. I followed all your suggestions including purchasing No Labour, No Battle and indeed they have all been very helpful. It just doesn't seem as if my grandfather, as a barber,  would have the skills used in an Artizan company. These companies look as if they were created to utilize more skilled tradesmen. Mind you he was almost 6 feet tall and apart from a missing eye, had been athletic young man - good for labour. Do you know if they would have duplicated the numbering system so there could have been an 829 Area Employment Company ( batman, laundry, etc duties)  and a 829 Artizan Company?  if not, then I will use the info you have provided about the Artizan Company to flesh out my granddad's story and leave it there. As you said, it is hard to track where he served except when he got into trouble and was disciplined. Though the records are hard to read, he may have been in Blargies and Abancourt at the time - after he had been assigned to 829.  This of course is where he also likely was working in 24 Base Park Company. Is it possible that the 829 Artizan Company could have worked along side the Base Park Company in the same location?  Again, I appreciate all the help!!

[kenf48]

 

1 hour ago, Livy said:

I followed all your suggestions including purchasing No Labour, No Battle

Assuming you have the paperback edition of No Labour No Battle the reference is top of the page 331 where you will see AE Companies in France 821-827 and below Arizona Companies 828 - 830 I believe as in the war diary reference https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/3eb44a447311456bb12a9a89881d7703  they were listed as Area Employment Companies (Artizan) or Area Artizan Companies.

We cannot know what his duties were (although barbers were in demand) and war diaries are few and far between but then above will at least give a flavour as to what they were doing (and free if you register)

Barbers were always busy this image shows barbers of the 2nd Leinsters plying their trade (Pinterest)

You will find many more examples with a simple search.  It was as much as anything a matter of hygiene.

[Livy]

This is wonderful. Thank you! I figured that everyone would need a haircut at some point or other. I have the Kindle version of the book but will track down the reference. I had really not thought about trying to track being a barber as a war duty until learning more through this site about the area employment companies...... Aagin, many thanks.