Musky03 Posted 12 March Share Posted 12 March My great great uncle, Sergeant Thomas Shuker 200160 1/5th Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment, was awarded the Military Medal for his part in a trench raid on 15th October 1917 in the Verquin area. The report of the raid follows: d follows: Reference is made to the 'enemy opening fire with prawns and machine guns'. What on earth is being described as prawns? I did search the site and the same question cropped up elsewhere but the responses were inconclusive, with one person suggesting that it could be a typo for pawns with reference to a particular weapon resembling the chess piece. But here it is again.... 'prawns'. Any ideas? Thanks, Adrian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_C Posted 13 March Share Posted 13 March (edited) An intriguing question but sorry, I don’t have an answer other than to confirm it wasn’t a typo. The entry below is from the diary of RSM George Beck of 1st Batt, Warwickshire Regt, 22nd March 1916, trenches, Monchy, and makes clear reference to the ‘first appearance of a Trench Prawn fired by the enemy’. It sounds like a term that was in common use at the time and the weapon was at the least deployed from early 1916 to late 1917, but I’ve never heard of it before now, and a thorough search of the internet reveals nothing other than this single diary entry. There are very few questions that go unanswered on this forum so I’m sure someone will be along soon with a definitive answer. My best guess would be a type of trench mortar. Pete edit : I’ve just registered that the original diary entry (below) places the term within quotation marks, suggesting an informal soldier’s slang on the lines of the British food related terms for trench mortars such as - toffee apple / plum pudding / flying pig / rum jar / fish tail (aquatic !) - or maybe not…. Edited 13 March by Pete_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander McLean Posted 13 March Share Posted 13 March Hello, Musky03 - I have never heard of the term before, but perhaps it refers to the Granatenwerfer16. Regards, Torrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesearch Posted 13 March Share Posted 13 March The ref. in entry 22nd March to say it's the "first appearance of a trench prawn" intrigues me. If it was the first appearance, ie they hadn't seen it before wouldnt they have described it differently? Maybe along the lines of received fire from new or unknown weapon. The fact it was referred to by name might suggest they were aware of it having been encountered in other sectors & already christened. Maybe a derogatory name but to me it suggests it had already been encountered somewhere unless it was a general term for a non specific weapon that couldn't be identified positively at the time. Interested to follow this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesearch Posted 14 March Share Posted 14 March Just had a thought, were there any weapons the Germans had which were in two parts ie an explosive warhead with a tail that seperated in flight? Or something along those lines. Ie a bit like a "prawn" in s much as the tail is kept, (eaten usually) but the head is discarded. The analogy being the tail part stays close to where it was fired from a bit like the tail of a prawn is kept or eaten but the head that isn't edible is thrown away, in this case an explosive device . Might be barking up the wrong tree, & I have no idea what weapon it might refer to, perhaps a trench mortar of some sort, but I could imagine how naming something like a two part projectile might just come about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootrock Posted 14 March Share Posted 14 March Since the patrol was during the night in October, presumably it was under the cover of darkness, so the "trench prawn" would not have been something that they saw, only heard or felt the effects of. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 14 March Share Posted 14 March I wonder if it`s a coincidence that the prawn is a shell fish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open Bolt Posted 20 March Share Posted 20 March On 13/03/2024 at 21:07, Alexander McLean said: I have never heard of the term before, but perhaps it refers to the Granatenwerfer16. This is a very good suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_C Posted 20 March Share Posted 20 March 55 minutes ago, Open Bolt said: This is a very good suggestion Could be but what is the ‘Prawn’ connection ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open Bolt Posted 20 March Share Posted 20 March Still to be resolved! :-) A seemingly articulated shell and a four-fin tail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_C Posted 20 March Share Posted 20 March 22 minutes ago, Open Bolt said: Still to be resolved! :-) A seemingly articulated shell and a four-fin tail? I’m not disagreeing, but it’s a bit of a stretch, whereas…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open Bolt Posted 20 March Share Posted 20 March Fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 20 March Share Posted 20 March This Intelligence Report is from the October 1917 WD of 46 Div HQ GS and refers to Stick Bombs. Brian TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2664 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_C Posted 20 March Share Posted 20 March 7 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said: This Intelligence Report is from the October 1917 WD of 46 Div HQ GS and refers to Stick Bombs. Brian TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2664 The two 'Prawn' references above make mention of them being 'fired' rather than thrown, as would be the case with 'stick bombs' - so I'm still inclined to think trench mortars. Also, not sure if it was GW or WW2 slang, but stick bombs were informally referred to as 'potato mashers' by the allies. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 21 March Share Posted 21 March Pete The 46 Div Intell Report for the raid (no 85) did not mention prawns or trench prawns so I posted the one from the previous day. Here is number 85. TNA/Ancestry WO 95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_C Posted 21 March Share Posted 21 March 26 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said: Pete The 46 Div Intell Report for the raid (no 85) did not mention prawns or trench prawns so I posted the one from the previous day. Here is number 85. TNA/Ancestry WO 95 Brian, How fascinating to to be able to read the high level summary of the raid in paragraph one of Intelligence Report 85 (above) and also have sight of the source operational report (in the opening post) that it was almost certainly extracted from - and to note just how quickly intelligence from the front line was collected, summarised and disseminated in October 1917. It’s a pity the summary doesn’t mention the ‘machine guns and prawns’ fired at the patrol as it returned, as I suspect this higher level report may have used the proper term for the ‘prawns’ leading to a definitive identification. Nonetheless, fantastic primary source research, thanks for taking the time to dig it out. The opening question remains unresolved - I’m sticking with a colloquial term for a German trench mortar but starting to think we may never know for sure. I suspect the answer may lie in a brief reference buried deep in a published diary. But regardless, the OP appears to have ‘left the conversation’ anyway. Cheers Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 21 March Share Posted 21 March (edited) I read in one report that there were 14 raids/patrols in one night. I will check the WDs of the other Bns in 137 IB (137 IB HQ is where the report in post 1 originates). Brian EDIT: I checked the other Infantry Brigades of 46 Div for October 1917. No mention of Prawns. The WD of 139 IB (WO 95/2693) 25/10/1917 records, "Hostile Artillery fairly active. Wing Bombs and T Ms also active. I read the WDs of 46 Div Trench Mortar Batteries and Commander RA 46 Div. No mention of Prawns. Edited 21 March by brianmorris547 additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open Bolt Posted 22 March Share Posted 22 March 23 hours ago, brianmorris547 said: Wing Bombs What are these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 22 March Share Posted 22 March 29 minutes ago, Open Bolt said: What are these? Here is the entry from the WD of 139 IB. TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2693. I checked the Intell Reports in the WD of 46 Div HQ for 25/10/1917, no mention there but 26/10 mentions Priester Bombs and also enemy planes. TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2664 Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 22 March Share Posted 22 March 1 hour ago, brianmorris547 said: Priester Bombs The granatenwerfer was also known as the priest mortar as the original version was developed in Austria by a priest. Still doesn't answer the prawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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