RIDDLE. Help identifying my great-grandfather's father. Galicia.

[Yury]

I am asking for help in figuring out who my great-grandfather's father might have been.

 

The story is quite complicated and confusing:

1. In September 1915, a boy of 8-10 years old was brought to the Evangelical school in Stryj (Eastern Galicia), who was wounded in the head by a shell splinter, as a result of which his memory was badly affected. This boy is my great-grandfather.

2. The boy is recorded under the name Philip Hollmann.

3. The War Ministry conducts an investigation to establish the boy's identity.

а. The boy gives conflicting information about his father. For example, he describes his uniform:

«The boy does not know his father's baptismal name, and he gives dubious information about his father's rank, stating that he wore a golden rosette and a cap with gold cords as a mark of distinction, but that in war he wore a dragoon helmet, had red lapels and was mounted»

b. The boy also says that he prayed with his mother in Czech and that the usual language of communication in the family was "Slavic". The boy also spoke German.

с. Comrades reported that the father's name was Franz.

d. They also added that «The father, wounded in the shin, is said to have been treated in the hospital at Munkacz, and took the boy from his former place of residence, which, however, is unknown to him, and the latter, after his recovery, accompanied his father to the Carpathians, where the father fell in battle».

e. Ibid. «In Galicia, where he followed the troops, he was wounded in the head by shrapnel and taken to the military hospital in Stryj».

f. A witness to the events of 1915, a teacher of the Evangelical School of Stryj wrote in a letter in 1931 «Apparently, he was with his father in the trenches near Brzezhany [Brzeżany], the father fell and the son was wounded and taken to the hospital in Zhidachuv [Żydaczów], and after his recovery to Stryj».

The bottom line is that there is a man named Franz Hollmann who was born no later than 1889 and who was involved in WWI in Galicia. He was wounded and treated in a hospital in Munkacz and then died in another battle probably in the Brzeżany area in 1915.

 

 I have looked at onalin lists of wounded and dead soldiers of the Austo-Hungarian Army, there are 26 people there under the name Franz Hollmann, but I can't figure out which military units were in Galicia at the time to guess by exclusion which one of them could be my great-grandfather's father.

 

If you have any questions or clarifications, I'll do my best to answer them. Also if you need to attach original documents in German to which I am referring, please do not hesitate to contact me.

I would be grateful for any help or advice.

 

The photo is of my great grandfather Philipp Hollman in an Austrian school for officer orphans.

 

With my kind regards, Yury

[seaJane]

I can't help, I'm afraid, but I hope somebody can. Such a sad and interesting story.

seaJane 

[charlie2]

Hello Yury welcome to the forum

Of the 26 in the casualty lists only 12 are recorded in or before 1915. Of these only 4 are recorded as dead and only 2 possibilities remain.

Charlie

[Yury]

16 hours ago, seaJane said:

I can't help, I'm afraid, but I hope somebody can. Such a sad and interesting story.

seaJane 

Thank you, I aslo hople that someone could givele some clues or directions.

[Yury]

10 hours ago, charlie2 said:

Hello Yury welcome to the forum

Of the 26 in the casualty lists only 12 are recorded in or before 1915. Of these only 4 are recorded as dead and only 2 possibilities remain.

Charlie

Dear @charlie2 thank you!  

Do you mean that the 2 possibilities are № 1 and № 3 and the two others from the Jaeger regiment could be expcluded from the search?  

[charlie2]

38 minutes ago, Yury said:

Do you mean that the 2 possibilities are № 1 and № 3

No. You wrote that the year of his birth had to be before 1889. No.2 was born in 1887 and No.4 has no date of birth so he also has to be a possibility.

Charlie

[Yury]

5 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

No. You wrote that the year of his birth had to be before 1889. No.2 was born in 1887 and No.4 has no date of birth so he also has to be a possibility.

Charlie

Sorry, I meant that he should be born "no later than 1889", meaning not in 1890, 1891 and so on. As if in 1915 the boy was 10 yo, so he should be born in 1905 and if Franz became his father at the age of 18 at least, his birthyear shoud be 1887 or earlier. I also added +2 years to his possibe year of birth just in case.

Sorry, if my English is confusing.

With my kind regards, Yury

[charlie2]

Yury, your english is fine.  Do we agree that 2 and 4 are the possibilities?
Charlie

[Yury]

15 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

Yury, your english is fine.  Do we agree that 2 and 4 are the possibilities?
Charlie

Thank you, I'm doing my best)

 

I tend to agree with your first version andabout 1 and 3, as Jerger regiments had very specific uniform, and what the boy describes is more likely to be the uniform of an Uhlan Regiment (light cavalry) where they had 2 types of headwear - regular black cap (offizerkappe) and a specific shaped "czapka" which the boy could easely confuse with dragoon helmet. In IR 74 (number 3 from the list) there was an Uhlan Regiment, for example.

[knittinganddeath]

If you have Ancestry or other service, could you do a search for Philip Hollmann born ca. 1905 and see if you find birth certificates for people with this name? You could then try to narrow down possibilities to see if there are any matches with a father Franz and Heimatort as given in the Verlustlisten.

[charlie2]

With the information you have given regarding the fathers age only the 2 soldiers in the FJB 1 and 12 are possible. Both of these battalions were subordinated to the 8th Infantry Division. IR 74 was subordinated to the 29th Division. The Cavalry Regiments allocated to both divisions were Schwere Reiter. The casualty lists do not record a Franz Hollmann in a Cavalry Regiment.

What puzzles me is that Philipp Hollmann was in an orphanage for officer‘s children, a Franz Hollmann with an officer’s rank is not recorded in the casualty lists. 
I am presuming that you can understand German, if so the Austro-Hungarian official history of the war can be viewed here https://digi.landesbibliothek.at/viewer/toc/AC01039112/0/ perhaps you can use it to find which of the possible regiments were in the area of Brzezhany in 1915.

Charlie

[knittinganddeath]

Source: Ordinariats-Blatt der Budweiser Diöcese: Heft 23 1916

More details, most of which OP shared in their original post, are given in the Ordinariatsblatt der Königgrätzer Diözese: Heft 7 1916. According to this article, Philipp's mother Magdalena died just before the war in a hospital.

I am curious as to the degree of certainty around the father's name. From the available information, it seems to have been composited from other soldiers' reports about his first name and a book in the boy's possession that was inscribed Magdalena Hollmann, the assumption being that she was his mother and that his father was therefore Franz Hollmann. On balance, I think it is most likely that Magdalena Hollmann was indeed the mother, but she might also have been a maternal aunt or grandmother who had the care of him after his mother's death. If that is the case, then the surname won't match the father's. If possible I would start by tracing her (marriage certificate, birth certificates, etc).

I am wondering if Franz Hollmann from FJB No. 12, 1. Komp., born 1888, could be a possible candidate. He is reported as a POW in Russia in late August 1915 (but is not an officer). How much time elapsed between the battle and Philipp's arrival in Stryj?

[charlie2]

11 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

Magdalena Hollmann was indeed the mother

It could also have been her maiden name.

[charlie2]

Yury,

Do you know when Philip died?
Charlie

[Yury]

On 13/03/2024 at 21:12, knittinganddeath said:

If you have Ancestry or other service, could you do a search for Philip Hollmann born ca. 1905 and see if you find birth certificates for people with this name? You could then try to narrow down possibilities to see if there are any matches with a father Franz and Heimatort as given in the Verlustlisten.

Dear @knittinganddeath I tried to look at Ancestry, FT and Family Search - unfortunately I couldn't find anyting relevant. He also could be an illegitimate child.

[Yury]

On 14/03/2024 at 11:47, charlie2 said:

With the information you have given regarding the fathers age only the 2 soldiers in the FJB 1 and 12 are possible. Both of these battalions were subordinated to the 8th Infantry Division. IR 74 was subordinated to the 29th Division. The Cavalry Regiments allocated to both divisions were Schwere Reiter. The casualty lists do not record a Franz Hollmann in a Cavalry Regiment.

What puzzles me is that Philipp Hollmann was in an orphanage for officer‘s children, a Franz Hollmann with an officer’s rank is not recorded in the casualty lists. 
I am presuming that you can understand German, if so the Austro-Hungarian official history of the war can be viewed here https://digi.landesbibliothek.at/viewer/toc/AC01039112/0/ perhaps you can use it to find which of the possible regiments were in the area of Brzezhany in 1915.

Charlie

Dear @charlie2 We know from the letter of the teacher of the Evangelical School of Stryj that in March 1916 a man called Friedrich Barbolany took the boy from Srtyj to Vienna (propably to Abt. 6 (Department of war education) of Kriegsministerium) and then Ph. Hollmann writes that the War ministry sent him to Officer's Orphans School in 1916.

So we have no proofs that Franz Hollmann was an officer so far, except for the boy's questionable description of this father's uniform.

PS. when I was rereading the letter of the teacher of the Evangelical School of Stryj I realised that he splells his last name as "Hohlmann" not Hollmann and does it three times. This is a transcriptiom from the original letter, so it might be just a mistake of the secretaty.

Thank you for the link - I'm not good at German (I'm Russian) but I can use online translators.

 

[Yury]

On 14/03/2024 at 19:44, knittinganddeath said:

Source: Ordinariats-Blatt der Budweiser Diöcese: Heft 23 1916

More details, most of which OP shared in their original post, are given in the Ordinariatsblatt der Königgrätzer Diözese: Heft 7 1916. According to this article, Philipp's mother Magdalena died just before the war in a hospital.

I am curious as to the degree of certainty around the father's name. From the available information, it seems to have been composited from other soldiers' reports about his first name and a book in the boy's possession that was inscribed Magdalena Hollmann, the assumption being that she was his mother and that his father was therefore Franz Hollmann. On balance, I think it is most likely that Magdalena Hollmann was indeed the mother, but she might also have been a maternal aunt or grandmother who had the care of him after his mother's death. If that is the case, then the surname won't match the father's. If possible I would start by tracing her (marriage certificate, birth certificates, etc).

I am wondering if Franz Hollmann from FJB No. 12, 1. Komp., born 1888, could be a possible candidate. He is reported as a POW in Russia in late August 1915 (but is not an officer). How much time elapsed between the battle and Philipp's arrival in Stryj?

 Dear @knittinganddeath you're a real detective) It took me a lot of tome to find there two announcements in the end of 2023).

You are right, everything in this article was taken by words of some people.

From Ordinattsblatt der Konigratzer Diozese we know that of official invistigation was held in 1916. I've found these documents in Vienna State archive - waiting for the copies to be done. From later correspondense I know that this investigation was unsuccesfull. But in one of the letters dated 1931 Ph. Hollman says that luckily he had found out the Franz Hollmann was a real name of his father. But I also don't have any documentary proofs of this fact.

I also tend to think that it is more likely that that Magdalena could be Franz's mother of sister.

Unfortunately we dont know for sure about the battle - Philipp was brought to Striy after his recovery from hospital in September 1915, battle near Brzezany (co-called 3 batthe of Galicia) was in summer 1915.

If I could understand where the documents from war hospitals and lazarettes in Galicia could be now that would be so much easier. In some countries all war-medical documents are in one archive, but in Vienna they told me that they don't have these documents in Kriegsarchive.

[Yury]

On 15/03/2024 at 00:07, charlie2 said:

Yury,

Do you know when Philip died?
Charlie

Dear @charlie2 Yes I know, and I think I should give some more detailes.

I was very luck and found his death record a week ago. Record 235 https://data.matricula-online.eu/en/oesterreich/wien/wiener-neustadt-hauptpfarre/03-25/?pg=44

He died in 1938 in Wiener-Neustadt. In his death record in's siad that he was born in Komorn in 1905

and now the most interesting part:

1. He was given an Austrian citizenshpip by the decision of the State council of the town of Wiener-Neustadt in 1925. As fas as i understood from later correspondence in these documents he is said to be a ligimate son of Franz and Magdalena Hollmann.

2. In his student card in 1926 it is siad that date and place of bith along withe the names of the parents are unknown (I have a copy of his card)

3. In 1927 he goes to Poland to Galicia to find his realitives. As he wrote later  a nuse that cured him in 1915 told him that the might have been from the outskirts of Striy (I know that it sounds ridiculous - but that is what we wrote to austrian authorities later). In Galicia he "found out" that his is an illigimate son of Agathe Chomyn from Hitar (it's a small village near Striy). Then he was taken to the Polish army (extremly questionable as he was a citizen of anther state he could not be taken to Polish army) and then he escaped from the army to USSR and was arrested in USSR for an illegal border-crossing. All this Polish story is absolutely confusing and look like a poorly constructed spy legend.

4. From USSR he wites to an Austrian embassy in Moscow asking to confirm his identiny and help him to come back to Austria. So in 1930 Austria starts the second investigation on Philipp's indentiy. I have these archive documents that is why I know how he got his austrian citizenship in 1925. Upon the request Poland sends to Austria some birth documens for someone called Philipp Chomyn born in Hitar. The Ministry of Justice of Austria says - ah ok, so we have to make some amendments to his heimatscheit (certificate of origin). After all Philipp got his new documents and he has left USSR in 1934.

4. What puzzles me in his death record is that in all documents of Soviet period his brith year is 1903. So I wouldn't dismiss the fact that he may have changed his documents for the third time after he came back from USSR.

 

So now you know the whole story))

[charlie2]

Thank you Yury

I had seen the death certificate on Ancestry but I ignored it as he is recorded as being unmarried. Did he marry?
Charlie

[Yury]

6 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

Thank you Yury

I had seen the death certificate on Ancestry but I ignored it as he is recorded as being unmarried. Did he marry?
Charlie

Yes, he was officially married to my greatgrandmother in Kazakhstan in 1932 and in 1933 my grandmother was born (I have these records). But as the family stayed in Kazakhstan I think in Austria officially he was single.