Kenneth John MacLean/McLean, Gordon Highlanders , POW

[Rachel]

charlie 692 and charlie 2

My great, great uncle, Kenneth John Maclean, was a reservist with the 3rd Battalion Gordon Highlanders before transferring to the 1st Battalion. He was taken prisoner at the Battle of Mons and held in a German prison camp the entirety of the war, and died of heart failure shortly after his release in 1919. We aren't sure what camp(s) he was held at, but his experience made me curious as to the conditions of his PoW experience.

This curiosity led me to pursue a masters thesis regarding Scottish prisoners of war in WWI, which I am currently working on. I have found so much helpful information in this thread and am wondering if either of you can direct me to any other newspaper articles, correspondence, diaries, or post-war reports of Scottish PoWs within the GWF? I have just joined and am overwhelmed but excited by the amount of information. I have begun searching through the National Archives WO161 and FO383, along with records held in some of the regimental museums, archives of The Scotsman, and official government reports on both the transport and treatment of British PoWs.

Much thanks for any help you can offer.

 

[kenf48]

18 minutes ago, Rachel said:

Much thanks for any help you can offer.

Welcome to the GWF

You may find this useful

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/voices-of-the-first-world-war-prisoners-of-war

and Richard van Emsden's 'Prisoners pf the Kaiser'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R84yssLgTKU

You may also like to start a new thread with specific requests for information

@charlie2 & @charlie962 are active members of the GWF an my tag should alert them to your post

 

[charlie2]

Hello Rachel welcome to the forum.

As Ken suggested it would be a good idea to start a new thread for your GG Uncle. If you can provide his home address, date of birth and his regimental number it would be most useful. Don‘t worry if you don‘t know but every bit of information helps to narrow things down.

Charlie2

[Rachel]

Thanks so much for your quick replies, Ken and Charlie2! I will start a new thread but wanted to let you know that I do have Richard Van Emsden's Prisoners of the Kaiser, as well as John Lewis-Stempel's The War Behind the Wire: The Life, Death and Glory of British Prisoners, 1914-18, and Oliver Wilkinson's British Prisoners of War in First World War Germany--all hugely informative. I've also seen the piece by the IWM, as well as one by the National Records of Scotland that focuses on WWI PoWs. At this point I am really hoping to find records that have not been published--at least not in academia--that we can glean information from and add to the very limited collection of Scottish PoW archives.

As for my GG uncle, this is the information we have:

Kenneth John Maclean

Born: 6 April 1892

Home address: 33 Church St., Stornoway

3rd Battalion, then 1st Battalion, Gordon Highlanders

Taken prisoner at the Battle of Mons, August 1914

Died: 18 March 1919, Caledonian Hotel, Stornoway

[Michelle Young]

Split into new thread. 

[Matlock1418]

9 hours ago, Rachel said:

As for my GG uncle, this is the information we have:

Kenneth John Maclean

Born: 6 April 1892

Home address: 33 Church St., Stornoway

3rd Battalion, then 1st Battalion, Gordon Highlanders

Taken prisoner at the Battle of Mons, August 1914

Died: 18 March 1919, Caledonian Hotel, Stornoway

Rachel, Welcome to GWF

Kenneth McLEAN, Gordon Highlanders, 3/6127 is used on his dependant's pension index card and on his medal index card.  Possibly on PoW records??

Note his 1914 Star, BWM & VM MIC, also under this name, shows a date of first landing 7-10-14 which rather seems to conflict with the details you have provided, above.

The MIC's Medal Roll should also be consulted for his date of entry to the ToW

The 1st Battalion's War Diary https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352072 [free download is possible at present] and other records may then perhaps be better read as a start for his campaign and capture

M

Edited 12 March by Matlock1418

[Michelle Young]

Image ©️ Ancestry 

[charlie2]

The medal roll confirms 07.10.1914 as his date of arrival in theatre, which rules out capture at Mons. I have checked all the Scottish Regiments on the ICRC site and the only Maclean anywhere near a Kenneth John is a K John Maclean with the Camerons https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/5730172/3/2/  Cameron Highlanders could be a mistake. Otherwise I have drawn a complete blank.

Charlie

[kenf48]

 

 

1 hour ago, charlie2 said:

Otherwise I have drawn a complete blank.

On the details given so did I

If it is believed he was captured in 1914 (although not at Mons) there are two Macleans in the list of 1st Gordon Highlanders taken at 'Aubres' on the 24th October 1914 PA 1033 (Two pages) No Regimental numbers

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/1389905/698/1033/

The card lists 'McLean Soldat' the initial is a scribble though probably M  and again no regimental number the other has the initial J so we're halfway there but anyone's guess is as good as mine

The October pages of the 1st Gordons War Diary are missing. I found it striking the number of men who were in the 7th October draft on the Medal Roll were either killed or prisoners of war.

The Brigade War Diary WO 95/1841/1-4 has an after action report from the CO which concludes, "10. I do not attempt to hide the misconduct of a large part of the battalion under my command, though I am aware of the reflection on myself of such misconduct." Sig(ned) A.W.F.Gandyne Major  Commanding 1st Bn Gordon Highlanders"

(dated) October 25th

The diary notes 5 officers and 163 other ranks listed as 'missing' after this action.

Rather sad the C(I)WGC noted in 1925 his grave was marked by a mound and 'neglected', but no different to others on the plot.

 

[AOK4]

16 hours ago, Rachel said:

This curiosity led me to pursue a masters thesis regarding Scottish prisoners of war in WWI, which I am currently working on.

 

I sincerely hope German sources will be used as well, if still available, (and reports from the Red Cross) to avoid a one-sided result?

Jan

[Rachel]

kenf48, charlie48, and Michelle Thank you so much for this information! We always understood that Kenneth MacLean was taken prisoner at Mons, but that does not seem to be accurate. I will consult with my uncle and see if we can find any more information. If he was in fact taken at "Aubres," are there any clues as to what PoW camp he might have been taken to? 

[Rachel]

AOK4 Thank you for pointing out the value of German sources--I absolutely am interested in those as well, though the language barrier makes it a bit trickier to navigate. If you have any suggestions as to where I can find translated records--or records that can be easily translated, please let me know. I saw that someone referenced the https://www.feldgrau-forum.com/, and I plan to look through that for further information.The ICRC records have also been helpful, though I've found that the majority of the records are written in French--again making it a bit difficult.

[kenf48]

 

5 minutes ago, Rachel said:

If he was in fact taken at "Aubres," are there any clues as to what PoW camp he might have been taken to? 

The list linked above and dated 8th January 1915 shows the Gordons taken on the 24th October were all incarcerated at Megesburg POW Camp. Whether they remained there for the duration is moot.  It is described as an assembly. camp from where men were sent to work camps.  It is a long list of names and there may be mileage in trying to find surviving records but we can't be certain Pte K Mclean is on the list unless there is evidence he was captured in 1914.

As a matter of interest in 1915 the The Aberdeen Prisoner of War Relief Fund reported there were over 1000 Gordons as POWs which gives plenty of scope.

This from the Aberdeen Evening Express 28th August 1915 courtesy of BNA on FMP

[Michelle Young]

“Aubres” is more than likely Aubers

[charlie2]

29 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

unless there is evidence he was captured in 1914

To my knowledge only the soldiers who were entitled to the 1914 Star and taken PoW during the qualifying period had „PoW“ noted on their MiC. This was because it was initially intended to not to award them the Star.

33 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

Megesburg POW Camp.

Presumably Merseburg.

48 minutes ago, Rachel said:

. I saw that someone referenced the https://www.feldgrau-forum.com/,

You are more than welcome to join us 

Charlie

[AOK4]

2 hours ago, Rachel said:

kenf48, charlie48, and Michelle Thank you so much for this information! We always understood that Kenneth MacLean was taken prisoner at Mons, but that does not seem to be accurate. I will consult with my uncle and see if we can find any more information. If he was in fact taken at "Aubres," are there any clues as to what PoW camp he might have been taken to? 

Aubres should be Aubers in Northern France (near Neuve Chapelle and Fromelles), 1/Gordon Highlanders was near Fauquissart on 25 October 1914.

Jan

[kenf48]

7 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

Aubres should be Aubers in Northern France (near Neuve Chapelle and Fromelles), 1/Gordon Highlanders was near Fauquissart on 25 October 1914.

Indeed, it is listed as "Aubres' and  on the next page as "Auris"

 

1 hour ago, charlie2 said:

Presumably Merseburg.

My error

but given the records J McLean does not seem so far away

[esco]

Weekly casualty list Jan, 28th 1919   ''Released Prisoners of War from Germany arrived in England .

 

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/194174478?mode=transcription

[Rachel]

Incredible, esco. Thank you for finding this. He died only two months later.

[Matlock1418]

On 11/03/2024 at 19:51, Rachel said:

My great, great uncle, Kenneth John Maclean

Rachel, I emphasise again so you can revisit/search  - he seems to have gone by McLEAN in the Army

M

[Rachel]

Yes, I’m learning that of the different spelling variations, “McLean” appears to be used the most often and should be the spelling I search first. Thank you!