MikeyH Posted 11 March Share Posted 11 March (edited) I have had this bayonet for some years. It had corrosion issues when I acquired it, the residual pitting can be seen. The crossguard has the remains of a marking, only '3.20' can be made out. It is of the M1884/98 pattern, made using an exisitng M71/84 blade, this carries the W cypher and the date of 1887. The blade maker is 'Weyersberg Kirschbaum & co, Solingen'. The bayonets were made up in 1910, apparently for issue to Airship Battalions. An identical weapon is currently for sale with a U.K. dealer, this carries the mark '9.R.9.98' on the crossguard and is advertised as an 'Airship Battalion bayonet'. They were intended for the M98 rifle, were they used by other units? Mike. Edited 11 March by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 11 March Share Posted 11 March (edited) Hello the bayonet is S84/98aA, so called old modell, made by refurbishment of older S71/84 as You mentioned, there is no report that this bayonet was used by Airship Batallions, the 3.20 is so called shortened unit for 3.Company and weapon nr.20, with no details of mother unit. the other mentioned piece by UK dealer - 9.Infantry Regiment, 9.Company, weapon nr.98, so no link to Air units, in Roy Williams book is reported using of similar bayonets by Kraftfahrer drivers, but the newer S84/98nA were used too by Flyer Troops. It was mostly equiped on long Gew98 rifle. Edited 11 March by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 11 March Share Posted 11 March Having googled it, the dealer concerned seems to be citing the Bayonet Book by John Watts and Peter White as the source of the ‘airship battalion’ info. How reliable is said tome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 11 March Share Posted 11 March Problem by this bayonet is it was heavily polished, as i assume there is something stamped in front of 3? but is already not visible here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 11 March Share Posted 11 March 3 hours ago, peregrinvs said: Having googled it, the dealer concerned seems to be citing the Bayonet Book by John Watts and Peter White as the source of the ‘airship battalion’ info. How reliable is said tome? A good book but published over 50 years ago. It tried to cover ever bayonet type from around the world. So many more detailed books with specialty focus have been published since then. Still a good book for general identifications but for an analysis of German bayonet regimental markings - go elsewhere. Ian Skennerton is in the process of publishing a revised edition of his book "British and Commonwealth Bayonets" with the new edition including fighting knives. He expects to have it out by the end of the year and was taking orders at the Bathurst Arms Fair on the weekend. The premium quality edition with leather binding and superior quality gloss paper will be limited to 303 copies. I suspect that these may all end up pre-sold before the book is released. This is part of the problem with good bayonet books, being able to get a copy as the print runs are usually so small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 12 March Author Share Posted 12 March (edited) 17 hours ago, AndyBsk said: Hello the bayonet is S84/98aA, so called old modell, made by refurbishment of older S71/84 as You mentioned, there is no report that this bayonet was used by Airship Batallions, the 3.20 is so called shortened unit for 3.Company and weapon nr.20, with no details of mother unit. the other mentioned piece by UK dealer - 9.Infantry Regiment, 9.Company, weapon nr.98, so no link to Air units, in Roy Williams book is reported using of similar bayonets by Kraftfahrer drivers, but the newer S84/98nA were used too by Flyer Troops. It was mostly equiped on long Gew98 rifle. Thanks Andy, the crossguard marking had been polished over before I got it. There is a faint trace of a '1' before the 3 marking. When I obtained it around 10 years ago, the vendor mentioned the supposed airship connection. He may have seen the Watts and White book. I still think it is a fairly scarce model bayonet. Regards, Mike. Edited 12 March by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 12 March Share Posted 12 March (edited) You should made a better picture of crosspiece wout flash, anyway it looks more like letter J in front of 3, which could means a Jager unit, the J or 1 is larger as the 3 digit, so its not 13 as there would be same size digits and not dot between. It depends on where You live, as in germany a S84/98aA is not extra scarce, as many were used by Stamm basic units. Airship connection is probably a fantasy here, there would be Luftschiffer Abteilung stamps on crosspiece. Edited 12 March by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Mortimer Posted 12 March Share Posted 12 March (edited) According to the 1914 "Proof of strength and equipment" documents (the last and reliable ones before war broke out), the 84/98a.A. was issued to Radfahrer (cyclists) within a Jäger- or Infantry-Company (which used the Gew98 with the long S98 bayonet) , drivers in the "Kraftwagenkolonne" (motorcade) and Ski-Battalions. All used the Kar98, but it can also be mounted on a Gew98 of course. They were seen as kind of "special service" bayonets for jobs within units, where a long S98 or 98/05 bayonet would have hindered movement. The "Airship Battalions" as the seller claimed it, used the short kS98 bayonet with a sawback. The unit stamping was typically (Number 1-5).L.(Company number 1-4).(Weapon number), e.g. 1.L.2.123 The unit marking on your piece is probably a leftover from an Infantry ("R"stamp) or Jäger unit ("J" stamp). Here's a marking from my collection for reference: To me it seems, as if the regimental number wasn't even stamped at all. Who knows why... Edited 12 March by Sir Mortimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 12 March Author Share Posted 12 March (edited) Andy and Sir Mortimer, This is best defined photo I can get, yes it could be a 'J', but still not that clear. Taken outdoors, without flash on an overcast afternoon in the U.K. Regards, Mike. Edited 12 March by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 12 March Share Posted 12 March (edited) Yes Sir Mortimer presented it nicely,even with more information about the Luftschiffer units, his reported piece lost the unit number in front probably by removing of the ring, or the previous stamp was not good visible and it was cleaned because there is a dot in front of R, so there was a digit or letter in front I believe You have there a J.3. 204 which could be a unknown Jager Batallion, 3.Company and weapon nr.204, even is possible this unit stamp is a overstamp of a older one under it, but that is unvisible now. Edited 12 March by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 15 March Share Posted 15 March One question ......... How does one stage a bayonet charge in a airship ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 15 March Share Posted 15 March It was for crew that worked around the Airships, some duty guards and different technical stuff people which were equipped even with arms of Gew.98, question is that similar people would be on board of a airships or ballons?, there were probably various stuff around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 15 March Share Posted 15 March i know I was just joking with you ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 16 March Share Posted 16 March Thats good to hear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 16 March Share Posted 16 March I imagine the spiked helmets wouldn’t have been a good idea either… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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