Help to find missing soldier records on Ancestry please - 2/Lt Francis Barnes KLR

[davidbohl]

2/Lt Francis Frank Barnes KLR CWGC

I've had to use the National Archives to pick up his MIC

 

That said, I can't find his MIC or Roll on Ancestry, or his Pension or Service record if one exists for Pte 15949 KLR.

Thankfully I've got his Soldiers Effects but can we find the rest please

thanks

Dave

 

[alf mcm]

Dave,

 This is Lt. Barnes medal roll on Ancestry;-

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/785084:5119?tid=&pid=&queryId=8fda0982-59de-4343-8dea-a02322f63ec6&_phsrc=SIn10926&_phstart=successSource

Regards,

Alf McM

[davidbohl]

7 minutes ago, alf mcm said:

This is Lt. Barnes medal roll on Ancestry

Thanks Alf, one ticked off, looks like no pension awarded though.

Wonder why cwgc indexed it Francis Frank

BARNES, FRANCIS	BROWN
GRO Reference: 1887  J Quarter in WEST DERBY

 

[Allan1892]

I don't know if you have seen this from the Liverpool Echo, 10th July 1916 (image courtesy of Find My Past)

[Allan1892]

His entry in the Soldiers' Effects register (image courtesy of Ancestry)

[davidbohl]

1 hour ago, Allan1892 said:

I don't know if you have seen this from the Liverpool Echo

Thanks Allan, yes we have his rather dapper photo in stock.

He sadly left his fiancee behind:-

BARNES—In fond memory of Frank, K.L.R. (‘Pals'), killed in Battle of the Somme, July 1, 1916.—Sadly missed by his sorrowing Fiancée, Dolly, and all at “Ivydene,” Ashfield, Wavertree. 

[PaulC78]

This looks like his service record at TNA:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1090252

[davidbohl]

9 hours ago, PaulC78 said:

This looks like his service record at TNA:

Thanks Paul, I'll make a note of that but I doubt I'll do the trip

[PaulC78]

17 hours ago, davidbohl said:

BARNES, FRANCIS	BROWN
GRO Reference: 1887  J Quarter in WEST DERBY

Frederick William Barnes and Hannah Thurston Brown married at West Derby in 1886. This looks like Frank's baptism record:

(Source: Ancestry)

1891 Census - family living at 26 Cotswold Street, West Derby

1901 Census - family living at 44 Milroy Street, West Derby

1911 Census - Frank was an elementary school teacher boarding at 69 Birmigham Road, Lichfield; his parents were still at 44 Milroy Street

1921 Census - parents now living at 9 Kingslake Street, Liverpool, presumably having lived at 4 Grove Street in the intervening years

Frederick William died in 1932, Hannah Thurston in 1950. They are buried at Toxteth Park Cemetery, plot CE.A.Left.334, an unmarked grave.

Edited 11 March by PaulC78

[davidbohl]

35 minutes ago, PaulC78 said:

Frederick William Barnes and Hannah Thurston Brown married at West Derby in 1886

Well done Paul, I think his mother is Thurstan, it certainly looks like it when she signed her marriage cert.

From Anc.

 

[PaulC78]

On 10/03/2024 at 17:38, davidbohl said:

Wonder why cwgc indexed it Francis Frank

I've submitted a correction, their original documents record him as follows:

(Source: CWGC)

[PaulC78]

On 20/03/2024 at 22:51, PaulC78 said:

I've submitted a correction, their original documents record him as follows:

As I've already said to David via PM, CWGC knocked this back on the basis of historical info provided by the NOK (though I'm not sure that explains their original documents which I posted above).

A photo of his headstone is now on Find-a-Grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/56560030/francis-barnes

[Matlock1418]

15 minutes ago, PaulC78 said:

As I've already said to David via PM, CWGC knocked this back on the basis of historical info provided by the NOK (though I'm not sure that explains their original documents which I posted above).

I'd have another crack at CWGC - I already have two relatives with their familar name also shown for their web commemoration, along the lines of Francis (Frank) BARNES - Surely the GR should suffice in his case

[Admittedly I did send contemporary family correspondence to persuade them of their familiars]

M

Edited 18 April by Matlock1418

[PaulC78]

Someone else can try by all means, but it's not something I'm willing to pursue any further. Choose your battles, and all that.

[Matlock1418]

Just now, PaulC78 said:

Someone else can try by all means, but it's not something I'm willing to pursue any further. Choose your battles, and all that.

That's fair enough - I bet CWGC didn't show you their all-peruasive and all-powerful evidence though.  I'd like to see it.

M

[PaulC78]

1 minute ago, Matlock1418 said:

I bet CWGC didn't show you their all-peruasive and all-powerful evidence though.

"In this instance, as there is additional information listing family and a personal inscription, we know we successfully made contact with the family and they approved the details, hence our decision to not amend the record."

[Matlock1418]

9 minutes ago, PaulC78 said:

"In this instance, as there is additional information listing family and a personal inscription, we know we successfully made contact with the family and they approved the details, hence our decision to not amend the record."

So they said - I bet CWGC didn't reveal in full!  And anyway that would probably be for an inscription.  So where did the GR come from - I'd put money on the NoK form [which is sadly unlikely to still be in existence - and if it is then why not reveal it?].

Might be a case of parents/family used "Francis" and he & his mates used "Frank" - and once he was gone his rather stuffy parents/family prevailed and did not even accept his familiar as an addition - such a shame really [in my opinion rather diminishes the commemoration of that officer - may Frank RIP ]

Hey ho!

M

Edited 18 April by Matlock1418