1907 enfield hooked quillon

[Andrew1966]

Hi all. I am wondering if I could ask for some advice please. 

I have been offered an Enfield hooked quillon 1907. It is dated 1911 with a GR crown, it is also unit marked 3RS. I am being told it is in very good good condition and has mki scabbard ( with internal chape) which again I am being told is also in excellent condition. It is marked HGR. He is asking price for it £700. 

I appreciate I have no pictures to post as yet however would anybody have any advice to offer. Obviously it's a considerable amount of money, and my main concern is that it is the genuine article. I can't see it until the end of next week, apparently it was owned by a long term collector who has now sadly passed away and his collection is being sold off.

Cheers of any help or advice.

Andrew 

[JMB1943]

Andrew,

That asking price is above my pay grade, and I would expect close to museum quality—it may well be, but we need good, clear, well-lit photos of the bayonet (ALL markings) AND scabbard (ALL markings and stitching) to make a final judgement.

An original 1911 scabbard should be brown, not black.

3 RS is likely the 3rd Bn Royal Scots, which is a very nice regt to have.

Close to 3 RS there should be a two- or three-digit rack number, which defines the particular rifle to which this bayonet was assigned.

Your question  “is it genuine?”, or “has the hook been added to a bayo from which it had been removed?” requires good photos.

I have read that an original HQ should ring like a tuning fork; will try on my HQ (presumed genuine) later.

Again, have a VERY close look at the HQ for signs of a weld.

Regards,

JMB

EDIT The locking button in the pommel should be free.

Edited 8 March by JMB1943
Add info

[Dave66]

I can’t add much more to JMB’s reply, but if good condition and with that scabbard I’d say it’s about what they go for…I paid nearly 6 for an excellent condition 3-10 Enfield, marked to the 3rd royal highlanders (black watch) in a later 1917  brown leather scabbard.

The Mk1 scabbard was only made in 08 and 09…great replacement👍👍👍.

Dave.

[shippingsteel]

I agree the stated valuation for a P1907 Hooked Quillon in good condition with good scabbard is about Par for an example at the top-end of the range. However the overall condition of the set together with the markings that are present greatly impact where each piece sits within the range.

As described this example sounds very typical of the surviving British used Hooked Quillon bayonet. Issued to the Reserve Battalion of the Line regiment (3rd Royal Scots) these bayonets received very little real use, and normally stayed at home with the Reservist, which incidentally lead to their survival in the Hooked Quillon format.

Lack of the typical Service use is actually why they survived intact, and also why they usually remained in such good condition. Mostly sitting in the back of some cupboard for decades, later to be unearthed in relatively mint condition.

Cheers,  SS 

[Andrew1966]

Hi all. Thank you for your advice. I will be honest it's pushing my pay grade very hard also especially after buying the Smiling tiger last month along with a couple of no.4s. However I am very keen to look at it considering there rareitity and especially as this has an early scabbard. As it is an Enfield example it would also fill a whole in my growing collection, leaving me with a mole and a sanderson to find. 

So I am looking forward to seeing it and hopefully it will be in the condition that has been described. 

Once again thank you for all your advice and should I decide to part with my cash I will be sure to post lots of pictures of it.

Andrew 

[trajan]

On 08/03/2024 at 23:57, Andrew1966 said:

... I will be honest it's pushing my pay grade

Andrew, if you haven't bought it, it could be worth your while keeping an eye on auction sites where these and other WW1 items often sell for about 60% of a dealer's reatail price. A good place to keep an eye on is (no connection to firm) thesaleroom <thesaleroom@mail.thesaleroom.com>, but you will have to pay VAT, etc, Most of my pickelhaube, Stahlhelm collection, including camo examples, etc., has been aquired that way - not always the best examples, true, but my Turkish pay (even as a full professor!) is very low by UK standards, and so my WW1 collection is deliberately based on range of items rather than specialising in one area.

[MikeyH]

A very nice example sold locally today, at auction for £340 plus fees.

Mike.

[trajan]

That to my mind is a fair price for an 'avarage' good condistion hookie - but Andrew is talking about one with an early scabbard, which are uncommon, which would explain the price. But, yes, auctions are the place to look for bargains. I have had a few 'battles' over items I particularly wanted but except in one case, a rare type of German buckle I wanted to near-complete my collection, I have managed to get what I wanted at less than dealer's prices. 

Mind you, you have got me thinking about it, the UK value of my eight or so hookies...!!!

[MikeyH]

1 hour ago, trajan said:

That to my mind is a fair price for an 'avarage' good condistion hookie - but Andrew is talking about one with an early scabbard, which are uncommon, which would explain the price. But, yes, auctions are the place to look for bargains. I have had a few 'battles' over items I particularly wanted but except in one case, a rare type of German buckle I wanted to near-complete my collection, I have managed to get what I wanted at less than dealer's prices. 

Mind you, you have got me thinking about it, the UK value of my eight or so hookies...!!!

Julian,

This was a very well preserved Wilkinson dated 11 09.  Undrilled pommel, with a reg. marking. unreadable in the photo. The scabbard was a brown leather 'teardrop', in equally good condition.  There were 19 'watchers'.

Regards,

Mike.

Edited 11 April by MikeyH

[trajan]

1 hour ago, MikeyH said:

This was a very well preserved Wilkinson dated 11 09.  Undrilled pommel, with an reg. marking. unreadable in the photo. The scabbard was a brown leather 'teardrop', in equally good condition.  There were 19 'watchers'.

Well, as always, one pays what one wants for something. My own opinion is yes, about GBP 300+ or so a fair price - what I would pay if I wanted it and had the cash and needed one. BUT, note that VAT has to be paid, plus other charges, will take it up to GBP 400 +.

I don't think I paid more or a little more than the equivalent of USD 100 for my hookies, all bought here in Turkey, and more than five years back when two growing boys put an end to my collecting activities!