Indian Cavalry: folding helmets

[JMB1943]

I am currently reading a British infantryman’s account of his time on the Western Front; the following passage has me puzzled.

“…….the curious episode of the Indian Cavalry…..valley was littered with cavalry swords and dozens of round folding helmets. I thought at first that these were German Uhlan helmets, but these on examination were found to belong to Indian Cavalry, the names of the now defunct owners being written on the insides.”

Can anyone supply details of these helmets?

Regards,

JMB

 

[Chasemuseum]

Never heard of such a thing. My immediate though is the reference to a horse riding type fibre helmet rather than a steel helmet ?

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

I am currently reading a British infantryman’s account of his time on the Western Front; the following passage has me puzzled.

“…….the curious episode of the Indian Cavalry…..valley was littered with cavalry swords and dozens of round folding helmets. I thought at first that these were German Uhlan helmets, but these on examination were found to belong to Indian Cavalry, the names of the now defunct owners being written on the insides.”

Can anyone supply details of these helmets?

Regards,

JMB

 

He’s talking about Pagris (turbans), that non regular soldiers would in many cases not have seen before.  With a kullah (cone shaped structure that formed a canvas frame/former) in the centre these would easily be dislodged in one piece.  The Sikh version had no kullah but could also stay in one piece.  It’s a fallacy that these were individually wrapped every single day.  Like all soldiers short cuts were taken.

Edited 6 March by FROGSMILE

[MikeMeech]

2 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

I am currently reading a British infantryman’s account of his time on the Western Front; the following passage has me puzzled.

“…….the curious episode of the Indian Cavalry…..valley was littered with cavalry swords and dozens of round folding helmets. I thought at first that these were German Uhlan helmets, but these on examination were found to belong to Indian Cavalry, the names of the now defunct owners being written on the insides.”

Can anyone supply details of these helmets?

Regards,

JMB

 

Hi

Where is this account from and what date was it on?  Looking at photographs in David Kenyon's 'Horsemen in No Man's Land, British Cavalry & Trench Warfare 1914-1918', it appears Indian cavalry were wearing either steel helmets or turban type headwear.  Plate 9 has the 20th Deccan Horse in Carnoy valley prior to the High Wood action in July 1916 with the majority in the image with steel helmets.  Plate 10 has the 9th Hodson's Horse near Vraignes in April 1917 wearing turban type headgear, as does Plate 11 of the 29th Lancers (Deccan Horse) near Pys in March 1917.  The text also includes examples of rather 'incorrect' infantry eyewitness reports of cavalry actions.  I am sure a cavalry expert can give chapter and verse on the uniforms.

Mike 

[JMB1943]

Messrs Chase & Frog,

Thank you for responses and photos

I think that you are right about a regular soldier not recognizing a turban at that time; it would probably be the equivalent of a modern lad being asked to describe a Brodie helmet.

Mr Meech,

This was taken from a memoir (Johnny get your gun, John F. Tucker) and is set at approximately the end of the Battle of the Somme.

Regards,

JMB

EDIT: I didn’t know what a Brodie was until I joined GWF!

Edited 6 March by JMB1943

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

Messrs Chase & Frog,

Thank you for responses and photos

I think that you are right about a regular soldier not recognizing a turban at that time; it would probably be the equivalent of a modern lad being asked to describe a Brodie helmet.

Mr Meech,

This was taken from a memoir (Johnny get your gun, John F. Tucker) and is set at approximately the end of the Battle of the Somme.

Regards,

JMB

Regular soldiers with prewar experience would’ve recognised them from service in India and the stories of their pals), I meant wartime enlistments and conscripts in many cases would not have. 

Edited 6 March by FROGSMILE

[JMB1943]

Sorry Mr Frog,

Yes, of course you are correct about the “Regular Army” soldier.

I had in mind the regular/average/ usual ( I nearly wrote “normal “) man in the street.

Regards,

JMB

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

Sorry Mr Frog,

Yes, of course you are correct about the “Regular Army” soldier.

I had in mind the regular/average/ usual ( I nearly wrote “normal “) man in the street.

Regards,

JMB

I understand and I should have written regular army soldier for clarity.  It’s a difference in the contextual usage between American and British English. 

[6th Hauraki KIA KAHA]

Also, they wore this underneath the Pagri this example is WW2 but similar.

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, 6th Hauraki KIA KAHA said:

Also, they wore this underneath the Pagri this example is WW2 but similar.

For reference that is the kullah I mentioned above.  Laying squashed upon the ground and still with the wrappings of pagri semi-attached it would have looked to the unfamiliar like a folding helmet.

Edited 7 March by FROGSMILE