Petty Officer Hopkins, H.M.S. Minstrel.

[high wood]

Another piece of research that I need help with. A large framed photograph of a Petty Officer with his dog. The cap tally shows H.M.S. Minstrel, which was an Acorn Class Destroyer launched in 1911 and lent to the Japanese on the 20th September 1917. She was never back in R.N. service being broken up on her return from Japan. This would date the photograph to somewhere between 1911 and late 1917.

I am a little confused about his rank as a Petty Officer usually has the double anchors with a crown above. In this case there are stripes below the anchors and I am not sure about their significance. There is also the medal, as yet unidentified; the ribbon seems to have disappeared into the uniform suggesting that it might be of a single colour.

I have taken the picture out of the frame to clean the glass and to see if there were any instructions for the picture framer on the back. There were. The person who put in the order was called Hopkins and their address was 3 Avenue Villas, Laira. The picture was framed in Plymouth and there is an area of Plymouth called Laira. There is also a Laira Avenue which possibly has a row of houses called Avenue Villas. However, I cannot find anyone called Hopkins living at this address.

There are service papers for a great many sailors with the surname Hopkins who served during the Great War, some of whom were casualties, but not all of their service papers are on F.M.P. particularly the earlier ones, so I cannot see if certain casualties served on H.M.S. Minstrel.

'Hopkins' may not have been a casualty, but given the size of the framed photograph and the cost of the enlargement he possibly could have been.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

 

 

Edited 4 March by high wood
Correcting typos.

[RNCVR]

@high wood

Well first off the medal appears to be an AGS (Africa General Service) with clasp possibly Somaliland 1902-04, as i think that is edward VII effigy on the face, altho its really hard to tell exactly as I loose resolution when enlarged.

His 3 chevro;ns are actually GCB's(Good Conduct Badges) that signify years of Very Good Conduct, in his case a minimum of 13 years in.  However what really puzzles me is the lack of the Crown above his Crossed Anchors (Petty Officer 1st class), it should be there but if it is I sure am unable to see it.

The rate badge on his right sleeve appears to be Leading Torpedoman (crossed torpedos & star above) however it too is rather out of focus so I could be incorrect.

Nice photo, I like the dog!

I see Horatio is here also he will be along soon i am sure either to correct me &/or add more info......

Edited 4 March by RNCVR

[horatio2]

@RNCVR has neatly covered the uniform/badge/medals aspects. I can add nothing.

The name HOPKINS alone, if not a complete red herring, takes us precisely nowhere. The cap tally for HMS MINSTREL is, likewise, of no help. Others may wish to research the Plymouth address.

I dislike the dog!.

[Keith_history_buff]

At that address in 1911

First name(s)	Last name	Relationship to head	Marital status	Sex	Age	Birth year	Occupation	Birth place
William Henry	White	Head	Married	Male	80	1831	Formerly moulder	Devonport Devon
Louisa Ann	White	Wife	Married	Female	60	1851	-	Devonport Devon

Reproduced, courtesy of FindMyPast, acknowledging Paragraphs 2 & 19 of their Terms & Conditions

For 1921

3, Avenue Villas, Laira Avenue, Plymouth, Devon, England

First name(s)	Last name	Relationship to head	Sex	Birth year	Age in years	Birth place	Occupation	Employer
William	Ball	Head	Male	1876	45	-	Shipping Warehouse Clerk	Henry J Waring & Co, Shipping Agents
Lillian Mary	Ball	Wife	Female	1874	46	Launceston, Cornwall, England	Home Duties	-
Clarice Jeannetta	Ball	Daughter	Female	1906	14	Plymouth, Devon, England	-	-
Stanley Charles	Ball	Son	Male	1908	13	Plymouth, Devon, England	-	-
Adna Howard	Ball	Son	Male	1910	11	Plymouth, Devon, England	-	-
Geoffrey William	Ball	Son	Male	1912	8	Plymouth, Devon, England	-	-
Roy Anthony	Ball	Son	Male	1915	5	Plymouth, Devon, England	-	-

Reproduced, courtesy of FindMyPast, acknowledging Paragraphs 2 & 19 of their Terms & Conditions

 

[Keith_history_buff]

Mr White is with Mrs White, and two stepchildren in 1901. The stepson is William T Bowden, born 1883 in Plymouth, working as a labourer. I am not seeing any likely contenders among the ratings' registers of service in ADM 188 though.

[Keith_history_buff]

William Bowden reappears on the 1939 register, 'Fitter Torped Dept Hn Docky Land' 

His sister did not marry a sailor, she was married in Stoke to Lazarus Podesta, understood to be of Italian extraction, on 15 Sep 1915 in Coventry.

[high wood]

45 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

@RNCVR has neatly covered the uniform/badge/medals aspects. I can add nothing.

The name HOPKINS alone, if not a complete red herring, takes us precisely nowhere. The cap tally for HMS MINSTREL is, likewise, of no help. Others may wish to research the Plymouth address.

I dislike the dog!.

The name Hopkins was the name of the person who took the original photograph in to be enlarged and framed. I have restored dozens of similar photographs in frames over the years and many have had similar details on the back, usually family name and home address and instructions for the picture framer. On the back of this one the instructions read: 2" Walnut. Which is exactly what the frame is made of. It is certainly possible that Hopkins is not the surname of the sailor, but it could be his mother in lar or his father in law or his brother in law and so on.

I have spent the afternoon looking through the service records for sailors called Hopkins and there are over 400 on F.M.P. I have only so far looked at those with numbers issued before the prefixes were added, or those born in Plymouth. None of them so far are recorded as serving on H.M.S. Minstrel.

The only newspaper article that I have found of the address was a death notification from April 1915. 

Deaths. Ball. April 24th, at 3 Avenue Villas. Laira, Plymouth, Joseph Ball, late of El Oro, Mexico, age 72.

 

[high wood]

2 hours ago, RNCVR said:

@high wood

Well first off the medal appears to be an AGS (Africa General Service) with clasp possibly Somaliland 1902-04, as i think that is edward VII effigy on the face, altho its really hard to tell exactly as I loose resolution when enlarged.

His 3 chevro;ns are actually GCB's(Good Conduct Badges) that signify years of Very Good Conduct, in his case a minimum of 13 years in.  However what really puzzles me is the lack of the Crown above his Crossed Anchors (Petty Officer 1st class), it should be there but if it is I sure am unable to see it.

The rate badge on his right sleeve appears to be Leading Torpedoman (crossed torpedos & star above) however it too is rather out of focus so I could be incorrect.

Nice photo, I like the dog!

I see Horatio is here also he will be along soon i am sure either to correct me &/or add more info......

Thank you for your input, it is appreciated.

[high wood]

1 hour ago, Keith_history_buff said:

At that address in 1911

First name(s)	Last name	Relationship to head	Marital status	Sex	Age	Birth year	Occupation	Birth place
William Henry	White	Head	Married	Male	80	1831	Formerly moulder	Devonport Devon
Louisa Ann	White	Wife	Married	Female	60	1851	-	Devonport Devon

Reproduced, courtesy of FindMyPast, acknowledging Paragraphs 2 & 19 of their Terms & Conditions

For 1921

3, Avenue Villas, Laira Avenue, Plymouth, Devon, England

First name(s)	Last name	Relationship to head	Sex	Birth year	Age in years	Birth place	Occupation	Employer
William	Ball	Head	Male	1876	45	-	Shipping Warehouse Clerk	Henry J Waring & Co, Shipping Agents
Lillian Mary	Ball	Wife	Female	1874	46	Launceston, Cornwall, England	Home Duties	-
Clarice Jeannetta	Ball	Daughter	Female	1906	14	Plymouth, Devon, England	-	-
Stanley Charles	Ball	Son	Male	1908	13	Plymouth, Devon, England	-	-
Adna Howard	Ball	Son	Male	1910	11	Plymouth, Devon, England	-	-
Geoffrey William	Ball	Son	Male	1912	8	Plymouth, Devon, England	-	-
Roy Anthony	Ball	Son	Male	1915	5	Plymouth, Devon, England	-	-

Reproduced, courtesy of FindMyPast, acknowledging Paragraphs 2 & 19 of their Terms & Conditions

 

Thank you for your contribution, it is appreciated. There is a service record for a William Thomas Bowden J.3536, but his date of birth does not match as it states, 24th January 1893.

[Keith_history_buff]

As well as being born 10 years later, his birth place is not Devonport. I am presuming that man performed a Reserved Occupation in the dockyard during the war.

[high wood]

5 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

As well as being born 10 years later, his birth place is not Devonport. I am presuming that man performed a Reserved Occupation in the dockyard during the war.

Indeed, my point was that we can rule him out.  My feeling is that 3 Avenue Villas, Laira had many more people living in it between 1901 and 1921 than those we know about from the census returns, particularly if it was a rented property. Even today, people rarely spend 10 years living in a privately rented house. With the Great War going on and the mass movement of people that it caused, there were probably many more people living there than we have records of. Electoral rolls would be useful if they have survived. I do not believe that Hopkins and 3 Avenue Villas, Laira, would be on the back of the photograph if there was not some connection however brief or tenuous.

The evidence so far is that we have a Petty Officer with a crossed Torpedo rating of some description, who served on H.M.S. Minstrel between 1911 and 1917 and, who had a single campaign medal, possibly the African General Service medal. We know that someone with the surname Hopkins took his photograph in to be enlarged and framed, giving the Laira address as the point of contact. This person does not have to be a relative but probably was, as a relative is more likely to want the photograph than a stranger running an errand for the family. The person wanting the photograph does not have to have come from Plymouth but possibly moved there if their husband, son or brother served in the Royal Navy. If it was his widow, she may have moved there after his death.

I am going to check the naval medal rolls to see if there are any Hopkins, Whites, Balls or Bowdens entitled to an Africa General Service Medal.