Private james Mitchell #4178 sli and #206236 - 3/4th or 3/5th Somerset Light Infantry

[Nikki Mitchell]

Hi I’m looking for help researching my grandad, he served in India and I believe back to France, he survived the war dying in 1933 of tb which the family believe may have had something to do with gas attack.

im truly grateful for any help 

[TTracer44]

Hello Nikki

 To catch the experts attention I would add some more detail to your header ie

regiment if you know it and may be India, good luck.

Den

[Mark1959]

Den

It is Somerset Light Infantry and later Beds&Herts.

So:

MIC says War and Victory medal but shows a silver war badge. The SWB roll shows he enlisted 21/4/15 and was discharged medically unfit on 25/12/1919. Aged 42 on discharge and confirm his overseas service but not where

The medal rolls show he served with 4th Battn SLI and 3 Battn Beds. Looking at the longlongtrail the 4 SLI was in India Nov 1914 to Feb 1916 and then in Mesopotamia for the rest of the war. The 3 Beds were in UK throughout the war so I am not sure why it is on the medal roll. Probably an admin posting after he had been returned to UK for treatment. There is no evidence of service in France from what I can find

Sadly his service papers to not appear to have survived. So as he did not get a Star he did not serve overseas before the start of 1916. We now the 4th SLI were in Mesopotamia from Feb 1916 so the obvious conclusion is his gassing/wounding was there and not in France. Cannot find a medical record for him

Edited 19 September , 2018 by Mark1959

[Nikki Mitchell]

Thank you so much, my father has brass from India that was where we were told it came from via my great grandads service, that’s the sad thing that as many records were destroyed we will never truly know 

[Nikki Mitchell]

Is there any other way I could find out definitely on his record?  All these years the family story was brass from India but the way I’m reading what you so very kindly found for me I’m not sure he went there at all?? 

Nikki Mitchell 

[kenf48]

James Mitchell enlisted in the 3/4th or 3/5th Battalion S.L.I. (Territorial Force) as above on 21st April 1915.  These were Reserve Battalions for the 1st and 2nd Line Battalions which were sent to India in October 1914 and December 1914 respectively.  He was therefore in a reinforcement draft to India (even if he went in 1915 he would not be eligible for the 14-15 Star as India was not a theatre of war).

 

Againas noted above the 1/4 went to Mesopotamia in February 1916 embarking Karachi 18 February 1916 and landing Basrah on the 23rd (probably HT Elephanta ).  We need to look for him in the casualty records, Mesopotamia was very inhospitable and apart from wounds sickness was rife.  Sick or wounded soldiers were evacuated to India and units retained a Depot there from where reinforcements were sent to Mesopotamia.

 

Either due to his age or sickness he was no longer considered fit for front line duty.  The fact he was awarded the Victory Medal shows he did enter a theatre of war, i.e. Mesopotamia.  Had he remained in India his entitlement would have been the British War Medal.  In any event he appears to have been in a draft fron the Somerset Light Infantry who were transferred to the 3rd Garrison Battalion Bedfordshire Regiment almost certainly on the 6th May 1917 in India and from there they were sent to Burma.  The fact he is on the Medal Rolls for the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire confirms this was his last unit.  Garrison Battalions were usually formed from men too old or unfit for front line service an therefore in a lower medical category, i. e. ‘B’.  This involved routine guarding duties in much the same way as the British Army had done before the war.

 

 He did not serve in France and it’s unlikely he was gassed.  It’s quite possible he contracted TB while serving, hence his discharge as shown on the SWB Rolls, i.e. Para 392 (xvi(a))’being surplus to military requirement (having suffered impairment since entering the service)’.

 

The brass you have therefore came from India, or possibly Burma which administratively within the Empire was part of India until 1937.

 

Ken

 

Edited 20 September , 2018 by kenf48

[Nikki Mitchell]

Wow Ken thank you so much you are amazing and truly kind to find all this out for me, you’ve made a great granddaughter very happy, have a wonderful weekend 

[Nikki Mitchell]

Hi it’s been a long time since I wrote on this subject, but the discharge date given above would this be from India or in U.K.?

thank you 

[kenf48]

He would be sent home from India and formally discharged in the UK. This is an extract from  the service record of 206232

Hanson.  It is stamped 'Fovant' I think 19 Novemebr 1919and he was 'disembodied' or discharged on demobilisation on the 23.12. 19. They were given 28 days leave on discharge.

Warley was the relevant Record Office.  Unfortunately what survives of his record does not identify the Troopship he returned from India on but if you search on near numbers you may find one who arrived back around the same time

 

 

[Matlock1418]

10 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

the service record of 206232

Hanson.

Just for clarity for this particular soldier = it appears to be HAMSON - MIC and Pension Card too.

M

[Matlock1418]

On 19/09/2018 at 07:48, Nikki Mitchell said:

he survived the war dying in 1933 of tb which the family believe may have had something to do with gas attack.

At the time TB was unfortunately a very common disease all around the world, including in the UK.  So probably hard to identify where contracted.

I have been able to find disability pension cards at the WFA/Fold3 as MITCHELL, 206236, so it seems he made a claim after his discharge [appears to have been discharged 25.12.19]

Gives a DoB of 1877 and address of 7 Lisbon Place, Holloway, Bath.

Claimed for Debility post Malaria - got several awards/payments 5/6 pw for self [representing 20% disability] and 4/8 for wife & 2 children from 24.11.20 then 22.10.21 No grounds for further award and Award notified on 8.7.21 declared final

M

Edited 21 March , 2022 by Matlock1418
typo

[Nikki Mitchell]

Thank you so much, he did serve in Mesopotamia then moved to India so I guess he did make it back to U.K. before his discharge date 

[Nikki Mitchell]

1 hour ago, kenf48 said:

He would be sent home from India and formally discharged in the UK. This is an extract from  the service record of 206232

Hanson.  It is stamped 'Fovant' I think 19 Novemebr 1919and he was 'disembodied' or discharged on demobilisation on the 23.12. 19. They were given 28 days leave on discharge.

Warley was the relevant Record Office.  Unfortunately what survives of his record does not identify the Troopship he returned from India on but if you search on near numbers you may find one who arrived back around the same time

 

 

 

Thank you for this, where is the best place to find troopship information from please 

[kenf48]

31 minutes ago, Nikki Mitchell said:

 

Thank you for this, where is the best place to find troopship information from please 

It is usually found on the Army Form B103 Casualty Active Form unfortunately as your g-grandfather's record has not survived we can't be definitive

e.g. this form another record 206233 Harvey he embarked in March 1919 but it gives an indication of the state of the records etc.  There were specific troopships used on the Bombay  - London route but we don't know at the moment the date they embarked for the UK.  if it was the entire Battalion there is probably a record somewhere but bear in mind India was not a theatre of war so no requirement to keep a war diary.  Incidentally I do not believe gas was deployed on the Mesopotamian Front.

 

Image from FMP

 

[Nikki Mitchell]

1 minute ago, kenf48 said:

It is usually found on the Army Form B103 Casualty Active Form unfortunately as your g-grandfather's record has not survived we can't be definitive

e.g. this form another record 206233 Harvey he embarked in March 1919 but it gives an indication of the state of the records etc.  There were specific troopships used on the Bombay  - London route but we don't know at the moment the date they embarked for the UK.  if it was the entire Battalion there is probably a record somewhere but bear in mind India was not a theatre of war so no requirement to keep a war diary.  Incidentally I do not believe gas was deployed on the Mesopotamian Front.

 

 

 

Thank you so much I truly appreciate your help 

[Nikki Mitchell]

Hi, I’ve recently found a newspaper article about my Great Grandad James Mitchell, I’ve tried to find a bit more about this but no luck so far, is anybody able to help please.  I’ve attached the article from the Bath Chronicle 

 

[Allan1892]

His Medal Index Card (MIC) shows that he was first with the Somerset Light Infantry with the service number 4178. At some stage he transferred in to the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment and given a new service number of 206236. He was discharged from the Army on the 25th December 1919 under King's Regulation 392 xvia -- Surplus to military requirements (having suffered impairment since entry into the service). He was issued with a Silver War Badge on discharge, his entry in the SWB register shows that he enlisted on the 21 April 1915.

(images courtesy of Ancestry)

[Allan1892]

On discharge, he received a pension due to Post Debility - Malaria. Perhaps @Matlock1418 can give some guidance on the pension side.

[Matlock1418]

206236 and SWB leads to a disability pension - Debility post Malaria

M

[Michelle Young]

Merged with previous thread. 

[Matlock1418]

Just now, Allan1892 said:

On discharge, he received a pension due to Post Debility - Malaria. Perhaps @Matlock1418 can give some guidance on the pension side.

Ha, have just posted the same - I suppose I must try harder and now try to offer a bit more!!

M

[Matlock1418]

There is a pension index card but the pension ledger page(s) seem a bit more interesting with more detail

Front of page

Reverse of page

Images thanks to WFA/Fold3

Initially a Conditional [temporary] award his pension and those for his wife & children [under 16] were at the corresponding percentage of the 100% rate until it was deemed he was no longer entitled when it became Final situation and No Grounds for further award

M

[Nikki Mitchell]

Thank you all so much, he did die in 1933 of tb, so he obviously contracted it on active service

[Matlock1418]

8 minutes ago, Nikki Mitchell said:

he did die in 1933 of tb, so he obviously contracted it on active service

Not sure, without further evidence, we can be particularly sure of the date of contraction of TB [sort of assuming you are referring to Pulmonary TB / Phthisis, but there were other sorts I believe]

M

Edited 28 February by Matlock1418