Negligent Discharges by the British Army in Irish War of Independence

[Errol]

According to this site British Soldiers killed Ireland 1919-21 (cairogang.com), 106 soldiers died as a result of ND's in Ireland 1919-21. There were only about 15,000 troops deployed, so this appears  very high. Anybody got any ideas about the cause? I presume that weapon handling skills and procedures have not changed much over the years? 

Edited 27 February by Errol

[corisande]

I  wrote that site

there is chapter and verse behind every death, so the numbers are at least that

Same with suicides

[Errol]

1 hour ago, corisande said:

I  wrote that site

there is chapter and verse behind every death, so the numbers are at least that

Same with suicides

Thanks! The site's a great resource and a fascinating read.

I'm just trying to work out why the number is so high. Did you get an idea of the reasons behind the numbers (poor procedures "make safe drills" etc, poor discipline, low morale, frightened troops)?

To put it into context, it appears that only one member of the UK Armed Forces was killed sadly by an ND, together with ten injuries, in the two-year period 1/1/2016 to 31/12/2017.

Accidental firearm discharge injuries by UK Armed Forces from 1 January 2016 to 31 December 2017 (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Hence, my comment about the 106 fatalities.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 February by Errol

[corisande]

Bottom line is that there are no comparable figures for other postings

In Ireland , only 25% of army deaths were KIA

The army was never keen to release figures on, say, suicides. So most of my figures come from trawling press reports, and inquests

i was unable to establish what comparable figures were for say post war army of occupation, or Maumau campaign, or Malaya

[Errol]

15 minutes ago, corisande said:

Bottom line is that there are no comparable figures for other postings

In Ireland , only 25% of army deaths were KIA

The army was never keen to release figures on, say, suicides. So most of my figures come from trawling press reports, and inquests

i was unable to establish what comparable figures were for say post war army of occupation, or Maumau campaign, or Malaya

I'm certainly not disputing the findings of your research, as I said before, it appears that there was only one death due to a ND in the UK Armed Forces in two years 2016/7. Accidental firearm discharge injuries by UK Armed Forces from 1 January 2016 to 31 December 2017 (publishing.service.gov.uk) and I'm only aware of one sad death of this kind in the Australian Defence Force.Department of Defence fined $1 million over death of soldier Jason Challis in live-fire training exercise - ABC News. I'm amazed that there wasn't uproar about it; however, in the context of the casualty rates of the Great War people were probably more accepting of military fatalities.

Edited 27 February by Errol

[corisande]

Yes. I would guess that protocols for weapon handling have improved with time. Like, say, safety on the railways

To make a fair comparison with my Ireland figures, you would have to try to get contemporary figurs for the British army. I never managed to find them

[Airshipped]

I think another problem in comparing like with like is that many garrisons had, at certain stages of the 1920/21 period, very restrictive arrangements. Men were cooped up and even the routines of weapons cleaning etc could have become an increased activity to stave off boredom, so even increased weapons handling could increase the risks. That said, it's hard to discern the amount of time spent armed relative to being just garrisoned. I think David's site provides a massive amount of detail on the individual circumstances of the cases but it's hard to draw inferences.