Picture ID - sunken “Mesudiye” or “Barbaros Hayreddin“?

[Holger Kotthaus]

Picture ID - sunken “Mesudiye” or “Barbaros Hayreddin“?

 

For me it seems to be same pictures, but different descriptions. What do you think?

 

Picture title:“Mesudiye zırhlısının alabora olduktan sonra çekilmiş bir fotoğrafı, yıl belirtilmemiş“

(A photograph of the battleship Mesudiye taken after it capsized, year not specified.)

Original Source:

https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/images/okankozanoglu/mesudiye_zirhlisi/image011.jpg

https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/makale-ler/okan-kozanoglu/427-mesudiye-zirhlisi

 

 

Picture title: “Two views oft he battleship Barbaros Hayreddin, torpedoed an sunk at 05:00hrs on 8 August 1915 by the Royal Navy submarine E 11.“

Original Source:  "The Ottoman Steam Navy 1828-1923", Edited & Translated by James Cooper, page 33

https://archive.org/details/learnislampdfenglishbooktheottomansteamnavy18281923/page/n40/mode/2up?view=theater

Regards Holger

Edited 25 February by Holger Kotthaus

[michaeldr]

The photographs which you show above are the same (even the sea gulls are in the same formation )

"Echos from the Deep" by Kolay, Taktak, Karakaş & Atabay, quoting Lorey Vol.I, p.184 say of the Mesudiye: “In ten minutes the hull of the ship that had capsized to port was above the surface due to the shallowness of the water.” The Mesudiye had a beam of 17.98m

The Barbaros had a beam of 19.50m and she sank in 16m of water. The multi-beam sonar pictures seen on p. 175 of 'Echos …' however suggest that even though extensively salvaged, the ship's scant remains are in an upright position on the sea bed.

[Holger Kotthaus]

On 25/02/2024 at 17:15, michaeldr said:

The photographs which you show above are the same (even the sea gulls are in the same formation )

"Echos from the Deep" by Kolay, Taktak, Karakaş & Atabay, quoting Lorey Vol.I, p.184 say of the Mesudiye: “In ten minutes the hull of the ship that had capsized to port was above the surface due to the shallowness of the water.” The Mesudiye had a beam of 17.98m

The Barbaros had a beam of 19.50m and she sank in 16m of water. The multi-beam sonar pictures seen on p. 175 of 'Echos …' however suggest that even though extensively salvaged, the ship's scant remains are in an upright position on the sea bed.

 

I took another closer look at the existing photos of both ships and compared them with the two photos of the sunk hull.

So I come to the same conclusion as you in your statement; - it is NOT the “Barbaros Hayreddin”

 

Basically, the respective port- and starboard sides of the two ships were identical and that is why I compared the port side

of the “Mesudiye” with the starboard side of the second photo on page 33.

https://archive.org/details/learnislampdfenglishbooktheottomansteamnavy18281923/page/n40/mode/1up?view=theater

 

The six gun ports can be seen in the two combined photo sections below. You can also distinguish the first and last elongated

notch opening from the four central 90° square recesses in the side wall. (The “Mesudiye” was armed with six 6” Vickers naval guns on each side.)

 

The perspective port side of the “Barbaros Hayreddin” / “Weissenburg”, however, shows fewer similarities.

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:SMS_Weissenburg_NH_88653.jpg

 

For me, another example of how carefully you should always look at and compare photos and descriptions.

Regards Holger