Early ‘Ironsides patent’ wire cutters

[MrEd]

Thought the forum might be interested in seeing these, a broad arrow marked pair of ‘Ironsides patent’ wire cutters, complete with a broad arrow marked belt frog that they live in. The frog is an earlier pattern of pioneer sawback sword frog modified in 1914 for these wire cutters. I don’t know why this was done, or who these were issued to but This type of wire cutters were first patented in 1902, and my hypothesis is that the commercially available wire cutters were pressed into service as an emergency measure to quickly make up the numbers of wire cutters available to the British Expeditionary Force when they went over to France at the start of ww1. Ditto the frog becuase, obviously, the wire cutters needed carrying in something and it’s easier to modify something that exists and isn’t really needed much anymore (obsolete?). Just my hypothesis though, and likely wrong so would appreciate others thought and comments.

Thought you people might like to see them annyway. I include details of the patent and the some details from the List of Changes entry when the War Department modified the frog - I haven’t been able to find the actual LoC yet, just this reference the the carter bayonet frogs book (vol 1).

If any of you can help or offer up any more info that would be appreciated?

Thanks

Ed

 

Edited 24 February by MrEd

[Dave66]

Thanks for posting this Ed, I’ve seen this pattern of frog on a couple of occasions before but dismissed it as I collect bayonets and their respective frogs….i wish I hadn’t, so really nice to see one and it’s contents. You put forward a very logical reason as to the evolution of these, so looking forward to seeing where this leads.

Dave.

 

[MrEd]

38 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

Thanks for posting this Ed, I’ve seen this pattern of frog on a couple of occasions before but dismissed it as I collect bayonets and their respective frogs….i wish I hadn’t, so really nice to see one and it’s contents. You put forward a very logical reason as to the evolution of these, so looking forward to seeing where this leads.

Dave.

 

Thanks Dave, I am trying to piece together patents and LoC entries for the barbed wire cutters from circa 1900 until 1918x not east but will keep at it!

 

ed

[6th Hauraki KIA KAHA]

Great to see such an early set.

More detail into the wire cutters.

Jonathan.

[MrEd]

Just to follow this up, I have dug out my MkV barbed wire cutters (Bradbury 1916) to see how the would fit in this frog ‘in an emergency’ 

‘Not very well, but workable’ is my impression.

2 positions - 1 just pushed in far enough to do up the buckle around the handle, or 2 pushed in deep into the pouch but then the buckle can’t be done up. In either case they are surprisingly firm in the frog and can’t be shaken out. I think if I had to carry them on a belt in active service I would just push them in as far as they could go and forego the buckle (maybe go as far as snip it off!)
 

 

[navydoc16]

Certainly it meets the “emergency” theory that they reused the frogs they had. I have never seen one so thanks for sharing 

 

Kind regards

g