Background and Details on the sinking of the monitor “HMS M30” on May 14, 1916 in the Gulf of Smyrna

[michaeldr]

On 05/03/2024 at 10:19, michaeldr said:

"Bulgar toplarının hareket eden hedeflere karşı gerekli nişan tertibatı yoktu. = Bulgarian guns did not have the necessary aiming equipment against moving targets." 

This would appear to fit with such a scenario:

ie guns captured from the Bulgarians, but without their necessary aiming equipment, nevertheless being put to use by the Ottomans in the next war, when they were in desperate need of any piece of artillery which they could lay their hands on

[michaeldr]

C. V. Usborne writing in his 'Smoke on the Horizon – Mediterranean Fighting 1914-1918' devotes a chapter to the blocking of Smyrna. There he quotes from the order of 2nd March 1915, addressed to Admiral Peirse and instructing him to “prevent (Smyrna) from becoming (an) enemy submarine base.”
This was achieved by the bombardment of the defences and the laying of mine-fields (both British & French). 
The objective (denial of use to U-boats) was furthered by the Turks themselves, who sank blockships in the mistaken belief that the allied forces intended to make a landing. The map crop below (taken from my post of 21st Feb '24) shows the sunken Turkish blockships off Fort Hamidieh, between Yeni Kale Point and the Sanjak Spit. 
Usborne has it that during the war, only twice were enemy submarines able to enter Smyrna and that therefore the allied blocking must be considered a success. 

[stevenbecker]

Michael,

Interesting, I never heard of the Germans trying to use this as a base?

For what German records I've seen, they never mention wanting to base there, could that be the reason?

I have heard, the Gulf of Alexandria is often mention as a possible base, but never based there either.

The bulgar side is mentioned, as they based sea planes there, but not U boats?

More research needed here

[michaeldr]

10 hours ago, stevenbecker said:

Interesting, I never heard of the Germans trying to use this as a base?

The possibility never arose. The Turks sank their blockships during the first half of March 1915 and the first U-boat to enter the area was probably U-21, which only left Wilhelmshaven on 25th April 1915.

Looking at Hersing's book he suggests another possible reason (at least with respect to submarines intending to enter the Dardanelles). The 4 knot current flowing down the Dardanelles into the Aegean continues in that same south-westerly direction, meaning any sub heading for Istanbul is much better off approaching the Dardanelles from the north; hence the base which was established on the gulf of Saros (Hersingstand) https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/makale-ler/87-saban-murat-armutak/529-saros-korfezi-nde-gi-zli-deni-zalti-ussu

I regret that have no information on the two submarines which Usborne says did make it into Smyrna

 

Edited 24 March by michaeldr

[michaeldr]

While we're talking about Smyrna, this photograph shows Germans relaxing in the hills looking down on Smyrna; dated 1917-1918 https://dfg-viewer.de/show?tx_dlf[id]=https://www.gda.bayern.de/mets/1242286c-356e-4595-8b85-4ef14a553ef0

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I did notice this for Germans returning at the end of the war on the Transport Ship "Etha Rickmers"

I have no idea of who or what they were doing there but Artillery seams like a good guess?

Gruppe Smyrna 1 Offz and 87 Mann

 

[Holger Kotthaus]

On 23/03/2024 at 16:02, michaeldr said:

This would appear to fit with such a scenario:

ie guns captured from the Bulgarians, but without their necessary aiming equipment, nevertheless being put to use by the Ottomans in the next war, when they were in desperate need of any piece of artillery which they could lay their hands on

There were also aiming facilities on the oldest Krupp guns used by the Bulgarian artillery. These were probably already damaged during the Balkan Wars and the Bulgarians, who urgently needed additional guns themselves, only gave the Turks those that were not in top condition!?

 

Artillery delivered by Germany during WW1https://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Testi/T_Artillery%20shipped%20by%20Germany.htm

Captured gunshttps://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Testi/T_Captured%20guns.htm

Goerz panorama sighthttps://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgarian%20Artillery%201/Equipment/Goerz%20panorama%20sight.htm

 

 

Edited 26 March by Holger Kotthaus

[Holger Kotthaus]

On 23/03/2024 at 16:44, michaeldr said:

C. V. Usborne writing in his 'Smoke on the Horizon – Mediterranean Fighting 1914-1918' devotes a chapter to the blocking of Smyrna. There he quotes from the order of 2nd March 1915, addressed to Admiral Peirse and instructing him to “prevent (Smyrna) from becoming (an) enemy submarine base.”
This was achieved by the bombardment of the defences and the laying of mine-fields (both British & French). 
The objective (denial of use to U-boats) was furthered by the Turks themselves, who sank blockships in the mistaken belief that the allied forces intended to make a landing. The map crop below (taken from my post of 21st Feb '24) shows the sunken Turkish blockships off Fort Hamidieh, between Yeni Kale Point and the Sanjak Spit. 
Usborne has it that during the war, only twice were enemy submarines able to enter Smyrna and that therefore the allied blocking must be considered a success. 

 

On 23/03/2024 at 22:05, stevenbecker said:

Michael,

Interesting, I never heard of the Germans trying to use this as a base?

For what German records I've seen, they never mention wanting to base there, could that be the reason?

I have heard, the Gulf of Alexandria is often mention as a possible base, but never based there either.

The bulgar side is mentioned, as they based sea planes there, but not U boats?

More research needed here

Personally, I believe that the capabilities of German submarines in World War I were overestimated.

Just think of the publication by Sir Ronald H. A. Storrs in 1916, who pointed out the dangers of a German submarine base on the Red Sea, or that of his compatriot William H. Ingrams, who also took active countermeasures in 1916 that he believed were necessary to counter a German submarine base in Mukalla in the south of the Arabian Peninsula. Neil Faulkner feared that Aqaba could be used as a base for German submarines in the Red Sea. The topic of 'Anglophile hysteria' about German submarine bases during the war could be expanded to include the seriously discussed dangers and counter-actions in Mexico and some states on the South American continent. Not even the island of Sumatra was exempt from this and was 'suspected' of having given shelter to German submarines.

By the way; - the hysteria about German submarines even went so far that Mexico and the West Indian island of St. Tobago were suspected of providing shelter to the Germans as submarine bases during WWI. The author Rainer D.K. Bruchmann researched this in archives about the backgroud and on site.

» GERMAN SUBMARINES IN CARIBBEAN 1914 «

 

Original Source: http://www.buecher-bruchmann.de/gb/4_buecher/buch10.html

[Holger Kotthaus]

On 24/03/2024 at 07:59, michaeldr said:

The possibility never arose. The Turks sank their blockships during the first half of March 1915 and the first U-boat to enter the area was probably U-21, which only left Wilhelmshaven on 25th April 1915.

Looking at Hersing's book he suggests another possible reason (at least with respect to submarines intending to enter the Dardanelles). The 4 knot current flowing down the Dardanelles into the Aegean continues in that same south-westerly direction, meaning any sub heading for Istanbul is much better off approaching the Dardanelles from the north; hence the base which was established on the gulf of Saros (Hersingstand) https://canakkalemuharebeleri1915.com/makale-ler/87-saban-murat-armutak/529-saros-korfezi-nde-gi-zli-deni-zalti-ussu

I regret that have no information on the two submarines which Usborne says did make it into Smyrna

 

Michael, very interesting article; - Thank´s for posting. Regards Holger

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Interesting

I notice the same crazyness during WWII with German U Boats