Pte. George Harold Kitchener 51492 11th Suffolk Regt. & GS/75827 7th & 2nd Royal Fusiliers

[Ivor Anderson]

Pte. George Harold Kitchener 51492 11th Suffolk Regt. & GS/75827 7th & 2nd Royal Fusiliers

Researching this soldier who first entered France with 11th Suffolks on 18 March 1918.

I think he was from Bishop's Stortford, possibly born 27 Feb 1899, m. Lilian R Wright Q1 1922 & d. Bishops Stortford, Q1 1978.

            Parents Solomon Kitchener & Rosetta Taylor married 31 May 1886. BISHOP'S STORTFORD, Hertfordshire, England

20 Bells Hill, Bishop's Stortford in 1911. Living 4 Council Road, Bishops Stortford in 1939 (Birth year stated 1898). I hope I have the right man?

Medal roll (Ancestry) shows that he was moved to the Royal Fusiliers 4 days later on 22nd March, the day after the start of the German Spring Offensive.

He may have been wounded around 8 July 1918 & later moved to the 2nd Battalion on 20 October?

Edited 20 February by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[charlie962]

Seems to be in a batch of men who landed as Suffolk but were transferred to RF immediately. Presumably due to the start of the Offensive.

 

[Ivor Anderson]

4 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Seems to be in a batch of men who landed as Suffolk but were transferred to RF immediately. Presumably due to the start of the Offensive.

 Yes. Thanks Charlie.

I wondered whether the 11th Suffolks had suffered heavy casualties on the 21st March, but apparently not: https://wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=7310

[charlie962]

Extract for Johnson, RF no 75824, shows typical service record entries for a man 11th Suffolk to 7th RF.

1 minute ago, Ivor Anderson said:

 Yes. Thanks Charlie.

I wondered whether the 11th Suffolks had suffered heavy casualties on the 21st March, but apparently not: https://wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=7310

As my subsequent post shows, it was a transfer at L IBD.

[Ivor Anderson]

7 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

transfer at L IBD.

    L? Infantry Base Depot?

[charlie962]

Another example highlights the 11th Suffolks was itself perhaps a posting from the 3rd Suffolks upon landing France. 

ie very brief and no action!

Record of 75838 (RF) Reuben Lloyd, courtesy Findmypast again.

10 minutes ago, Ivor Anderson said:

    L? Infantry Base Depot?

Correct. Formerly 17 IBD at Etaples. Not sure if others also merged,?

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/other-aspects-of-order-of-battle/infantry-base-depots-in-france-1914-1918/

Edited 20 February by charlie962

[charlie962]

Note the handwritten date embarked 18/3 yet typed 19/3 on the same record. So I think same dates for Kitchener.

[Ivor Anderson]

On 20/02/2024 at 13:58, charlie962 said:

Note the handwritten date embarked 18/3 yet typed 19/3 on the same record. So I think same dates for Kitchener.

Thanks Charlie.

If I have the right man, Kitchener had only recently turned 19. Father Solomon died 1899. Mother & children in BS Workhouse 1901. With mother Rosetta 1911.

A family tree: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/113024811/person/150111220975/facts?_phsrc=qzF14822&_phstart=successSource

Edited 23 February by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[charlie962]

4 minutes ago, Ivor Anderson said:

only recently turned 19.

Same for Reuben Lloyd noted above. May be worth closer look at his record for clues on pre March 1918 service.

[charlie962]

That break in overseas service July- Oct 1918 and change of RF battalion may indicate wounding? Worth a check of NLS casualty lists Aug 1918 which should give hometown of NoK.

 

[Ivor Anderson]

6 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Worth a check of NLS casualty lists Aug 1918 which should give hometown of NoK.

I checked the nls site, but there was no Kitchener 75827.  

No deaths recorded for early August, but 80+ deaths towards the end of August 1918: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/search-results/?Surname=&Forename=&Initials=&ServiceNum=&Regiment=royal+fusiliers&RegimentExact=true&Unit=7th+bn.&DateDeathFromDay=1&DateDeathFromMonth=August&DateDeathFromYear=1918&DateDeathToDay=31&DateDeathToMonth=August&DateDeathToYear=1918&DateOfDeath=&CountryCommemoratedIn=null&Cemetery=&Rank=&SecondaryRegiment=&SecondaryUnit=&AgeOfDeath=0&Honours=null&AdditionalInfo=&Page=1

Edited 20 February by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

Some close 11th Suffolk Regt. service nos.

51482 Charles James Harris - later GS/75820 7th Royal Fusiliers - KIA 31 Aug 1918 with 4th R Fus.

51483 George Harris - later GS/75821 7th Royal Fusiliers

51484 Horace Hide - whole service with 11th Suffolk

51487 Cyril Archie Irons - later GS/75822 7th Royal Fusiliers

51676 Joseph Jennings - later GS/75823 7th Royal Fusiliers

           Gerald Sidney Johnson - 75824 7th R Fus & G22017 RW Kent

51489 Jolande Archie Jackson - later GS/75825 7th Royal Fusiliers - died of W 30 Sept 1918 aged 19 - Formerly 72245, 25th T. Res. Bn.

51490 Bertie James - Suffolks - later 73301 Norfolk Regt.

51491 Reginald Charles King - later GS/75826 7th Royal Fusiliers

51492 George Harold Kitchener - later GS/75827 7th Royal Fusiliers

51494 Herbert W King - later GS/75828 7th Royal Fusiliers

51591 William Henry Keetling - later GS/75831 7th Royal Fusiliers

23494 Frederick Henry Kent - later GS/75832 7th Royal Fusiliers

51589 Duncan Vernon Keeling - later GS/75834 7th Royal Fusiliers

          Died 27 August 1918, aged 20: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/264315/duncan-vernon-keeling/

51590 Arnold Victor Keene - later GS/75833 7th Royal Fusiliers

51495 Ernest W King - later GS/75835 7th Royal Fusiliers

51496 William Lavender - later GS/75836 7th Royal Fusiliers

51497 - Edward J Lewington - later 630651 Labour Corps

51499 - Frederick C. Lowman - later GS/75837 7th Royal Fusiliers

51502 - Reuben Lloyd - - later GS/75838 7th Royal Fusiliers

51503 William Leeks - - later GS/75839 7th Royal Fusiliers

51592 - Walter Langley - later GS/75840 7th Royal Fusiliers

Edited 20 February by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

4 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

m. Lilian R Wright Q1 1922

Three children:

Birth of son Ronald Maurice Kitchener(1922–2005) 19 July 1922 • BISHOP'S STORTFORD, Hertfordshire, England

Birth of daughter Marjorie J Kitchener(1923–2002) 8 December 1923 • BISHOP'S STORTFORD, Hertfordshire, England

Birth of son Roy Kitchener(1925–1997) 7 June 1925 • BISHOP'S STORTFORD, Hertfordshire, England

[charlie962]

Death noted 1977 in Herts Essex Observer courtesy Findmypast newspapers. Mentions daughter Marjorie.

[Ivor Anderson]

Thanks Charlie. A sad end for someone who was such a young WW1 soldier.

So he landed in France with the Suffolks, but was transferred to the 7th RF before he left the IB Depot. His BWM reflects his theatre entry unit ('SUFF.R.'):

 

Edited 21 February by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

Checking the WD 7th RF: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7355483

This list of MMs was in the WD on 15 July 1918 - the raid referred to was on 4/5th July:

29 July 1918 - They relieved the 2/6th KLR near HENU on . Lt. Col. R P Burnett MC rejoined the Bn but was temp GOC Brigade, to cover leave.

30 July 1918 - RSM S Keefe MC rejoined - after being wounded by gas on 12 April.          9 ORs casualties during July

1 Aug 1918 - 2 Lieuts. R Billgrove & J/T W Jones awarded MCs for the raid on 4/5 July 1918.

Nothing to indicate why Pte. G. H. Kitchener left the Bn from 6th August 1918:

13 officers & 382 ORs casualties during August - mostly during a major attack during 221/22nd onwards.

Edited 21 February by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Ivor Anderson]

His BWM has a RAOB medal with it - R Kitchener. Perhaps one of his sons, Ronald or Roy?

[charlie962]

6 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Nothing to indicate why Pte. G. H. Kitchener left the Bn from 6th August 1918:

He left 8th July, surely? There was a trench raid earlier. Casualties for the month were low.

Charlie

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60779/images/43112_3119_0-00240?treeid=&personid=&queryId=892aa846-e15a-47e6-924d-9ffcd23c70d0&usePUB=true&_phsrc=tLN929&_phstart=successSource&pId=368223

Edited 21 February by charlie962
Link to July war diary

[charlie962]

Only one person wounded in the trench raid 4/5 July but the timing of his departure a few days after fits with a potential evacuation to UK. May just be coincidental 

[Ivor Anderson]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

He left 8th July, surely? There was a trench raid earlier.

Silly me! Yes, he could have been wounded in that 4/5th July raid.

[Ivor Anderson]

His older brother Herbert Solomon Kitchener enlisted as 45687 with the 3rd Bedfordshire Regt. in April 1917: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/386484:1114

He got a SWB: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/455145:2456

Born 13 Sept 1887: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1174597:61699    Married 1916, died 1920 aged 33.

Edited 23 February by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info