Donbogen Posted 12 February Share Posted 12 February (edited) Here's my patt 1903 bayonet 12/02 matching rack nos got a knock on the grips part of its history I collect German and French bayonets for 52 years could not resist this one. Edited 12 February by Donbogen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 12 February Share Posted 12 February Mr DB, It would be truly hard to find a set any better than this!!! Dated to just before the new Pattern year / matching rack numbers / unit marked / frog still attached / cleanly marked scabbard / made at RSAF, Enfield and everything in very good condition. Who is a lucky dog………? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donbogen Posted 12 February Author Share Posted 12 February Thank You Cost abit but find another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February Without the detail, I can just about guarantee as worth the premium. Compared to an "average" condition bayonet without scabbard say an additional 150% on the nominal market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February 10 hours ago, Chasemuseum said: Without the detail, I can just about guarantee as worth the premium. Compared to an "average" condition bayonet without scabbard say an additional 150% on the nominal market. I agree, I brought one a couple of years ago unit marked to the ASC, not matching numbers but slightly better overall condition…had to pay £230 which seemed pricey but just not seeing many like that. Great find, thanks for sharing….pool room!!! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February Yes a very nice P1903 bayonet made by Enfield, and the interesting part about it is the 12 '02 date. Now the P1903 was actually officially approved in December 1902 so it could be one of the very first ones ever made.! Alternatively it was possibly converted from a late made P1888 blade which was commonly done. This could be better determined perhaps by a clearer look at the attached inspection markings. (It is also marked to the Cambridge OTC obviously) Also of interest is the scabbard, which is NOT a P1903 scabbard but instead a P1888 Mk.II Land version (that was confusingly made in 1903) and later upgraded to the Mk.II* configuration with the 2 rivets attaching the loop. This upgrade was introduced in LoC 12612 dated 3 Mar 1904. However despite all this confusion this set is still quite valid as the P1903 bayonet was officially deemed "interchangeable" on all the variants of earlier P1888 scabbards. See my old contribution linked below for more details ... https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/186439-patt1903-scabbard-land-mki/ Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donbogen Posted 13 February Author Share Posted 13 February Hi SS Thanks for info on scabboard i find it intresting I have checked blade under a glass no ghost markings ref been a 88 patt Yes it is 02 manufacture it is a weak stamp but under a glass is a 2 iv been collecting for 52 years i could not pass on this one If the rack no was not the same i would not have brought it Cheers DB 4 hours ago, Dave66 said: I agree, I brought one a couple of years ago unit marked to the ASC, not matching numbers but slightly better overall condition…had to pay £230 which seemed pricey but just not seeing many like that. Great find, thanks for sharing….pool room!!! Dave. Thanks for your reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February Hi DB, it is certainly a nicely marked set and both items very interesting. Can you make out what the Inspection marking on the blade reads.? It looks like Crown over XX? over E.? Can you make out what the numbers are.? Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donbogen Posted 13 February Author Share Posted 13 February Hi SS Im on night duty at hotel i let you know nos tomorrow any ideas how scabbard is dated 03 and has a Birmingham stamp the city i was born in Cheers DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February Yes the scabbard was produced in 1903, and made and/or inspected by RSAF Sparkbrook in Birmingham, as shown by the letter B over number. Now when this bayonet was made in December 1902, the P1888 Mk.II scabbard was actually THE scabbard and the current model so to speak. Now not many people would know that when the P1903 bayonet was first introduced it did not have it's own scabbard. It was stated that they are to be interchangeable on the older P1888 scabbards. This explains why the actual P1903 scabbards are so hard to find. It was only later in 1903, late August in fact some 9 months after the introduction of the bayonet, that the proper P1903 Mk.I scabbard was finally "sealed to govern future manufacture". It too was declared interchangeable on all earlier P1888 bayonets, the P1903 and all such conversions. Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donbogen Posted 13 February Author Share Posted 13 February Thank You iv been into German and French bayonets all my life i find this bayonet fascinating i send you those Enfield stamp nos when im up and about tomorrow Cheers DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donbogen Posted 14 February Author Share Posted 14 February (edited) Hi SS 53 is Enfield stamp blade 16 is Enfield stamp spine it has been over stamped with D post 1925 repair stamp Regards DB PS After viewing with a stronger glass and in natural light year is not 02 but is 00 making it a conversion from a virgin blade DB Edited 14 February by Donbogen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 14 February Share Posted 14 February (edited) On 13/02/2024 at 21:04, shippingsteel said: Alternatively it was possibly converted from a late made P1888 blade which was commonly done. This could be better determined perhaps by a clearer look at the attached inspection markings. Cheers, SS 1 hour ago, Donbogen said: Hi SS After viewing with a stronger glass and in natural light year is not 02 but is 00 making it a conversion from a virgin blade As I noted previously, I did suspect it could have been a conversion from an earlier P1888. The extra inspection marking placed high on the spine of the blade is usually a good indicator of a converted P1903. The strange part is yours doesn't seem to have an original inspection marking at all. Perhaps you are right and it was a "virgin blade", so possibly assembled as a P1888 but never left the factory, then later converted into the P1903 format. Bit hard to say ... Cheers, SS Edited 14 February by shippingsteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donbogen Posted 14 February Author Share Posted 14 February (edited) Whats your imput on the D post 1925 repair stap on spine I wonder when OTC got hold of it the fact it has matching rank nos is key to me buying it Regards DB Edited 14 February by Donbogen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 14 February Share Posted 14 February I would have to see an actual photo of the D marking to determine what it was about. Is it found on the short edge of the blade, or stamped on the handle section between the timber grips.? The later period D stamp was an Enfield marking, and was actually the conjoined E F D letters, looking just like a D with a cross line in it. Regarding the OTC, they got it no earlier than October 1908, when the OTC units were first authorised under the Haldane reforms. Can read about it here at link below, scrolling way down through History section brings up specific story of the Cambridge OTC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Officers'_Training_Corps Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donbogen Posted 14 February Author Share Posted 14 February Thank You SS I give you details about D stamp tomorrow Work bekons Regards DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 14 February Share Posted 14 February While we are waiting, and obviously on the topic of the beautiful P1903 bayonet ... here is one of mine to throw into the mix.! And with the "proper" P1903 Mk.I scabbard illustrated for "reference purposes" Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donbogen Posted 15 February Author Share Posted 15 February Great example puts mine to shame The D is stamped on the bottom spine not the tang it stamped on top of a 16 enfield inspections stamp Regards DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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