Spree Farm Posted 13 February Author Share Posted 13 February 15 hours ago, Matlock1418 said: Can't help you much more with such details I'm afraid [Pensions are more my thing] To find a WD I suggest putting all the below [or something like this - change the Regt and/or Bn as required into the TNA search engine https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk [complete with all the quotes and don't use 1st, 2nd, 3rd . 4th etc - just a digit(s)] "WO 95" "Durham Light Infantry" "10 Battalion" M I have hard copies of all the DLI diaries as I have found the digital ones do not contain all the information in the originals. For example the is a list of every member of the 10th Bn serving on 31 Dec 1915 which does not appear in the online copy. Robson appears as being in "D" Company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foresterab Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February My one reference book is at the office but the different Forestry corps raised in Canada (and Newfoundland) were further split into companies. These unfortunately didn’t start arriving in England until 1916 and by 1917 many were working in France. Some companies did use POW for manpower. So it might have been guard duty or a labour detail? will try to check when able but guessing it was more likely a wood cutting detail for either trench Timbers or preparing charcoal (less smoke to mark dugouts than wood fires) would have been priority products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February 7 hours ago, Spree Farm said: 2432 Pte Thomas William Robson 1st/6th renumbered 250212 I think it is a T not a J 2432 Pte Thomas William Robson 1st/6th renumbered 250212 I thought it might be a T when I saw a later entry on a Field Return. I meant to Edit. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February (edited) The 18th General Hospital register also mentions Saint-Omer, which was because (according to his service record) he was admitted to 10 Stationary Hospital there on 13 February 1916. I think I would be looking at First Army or Lines of Communication diaries to see if I could find any reference to units deployed on timber work in that area in that month. His wounding in July 1916 is a different matter. Edited 13 February by Chris_Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February And att 6 DLI must be a mistake as I mentioned earlier, because if he was in 6 DLI when admitted to 18 GH on 29/02/1916, he would be named in the Field Returns. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February There are two separate hospital entries below It is clear (to me anyway) that this refers to "6 Wood Cutting Corp" and not a reference to a Company, I have no idea what "SB" is - the hospital used "SB" for some other men. Perhaps "Service Batn" He is attached to "6 Woodcutting Corp". and is nothing to do with Robson's D Coy There are a number of Canadians on the same page, but none that I can see with Wood Cutting against their name One would have to go through the whole book to establish any other woodcutters This entry in Fmp And this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February 1 hour ago, Chris_Baker said: The 18th General Hospital register also mentions Saint-Omer, which was because (according to his service record) he was admitted to 10 Stationary Hospital there on 13 February 1916. I think I would be looking at First Army or Lines of Communication diaries to see if I could find any reference to units deployed on timber work in that area in that month. His wounding in July 1916 is a different matter. The OP needs to go though Robson's service record to see where he was when. There is certainly a lot of detail available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February I did wonder if the 6 Wood Cutting Co related to the Royal Scots Fusilier Pte Harding on the line above but the brackets seemed to relate to 20258 Robson Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foresterab Posted 13 February Share Posted 13 February I checked my one reference - Farming and Forestry on the Western Front by Murray Maclean. it references harvest of French “coupes” or woods through Royal Engineer units in fall of 2015 and were greatly expanded in 1916. I have not found any RE 6th Forestry Corps yet. There were many additional units added to the RE but my knowledge of England does not allow me to link unit to division well. there was a 6 Forestry Depot under the Canadian Forestry Corps raised July 17,1917 that was used to reinforce Canadian units. I also found reference to the 6th DLI and the 8 CEF units being merged briefly after some battles in Ypres. At least in the Canadian units the were troops sent from front line units to the Forestry Corp for recovery and vice versa the Forestry Corp gleaned for fit men especially in 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spree Farm Posted 14 February Author Share Posted 14 February 13 hours ago, Foresterab said: I checked my one reference - Farming and Forestry on the Western Front by Murray Maclean. it references harvest of French “coupes” or woods through Royal Engineer units in fall of 2015 and were greatly expanded in 1916. I have not found any RE 6th Forestry Corps yet. There were many additional units added to the RE but my knowledge of England does not allow me to link unit to division well. there was a 6 Forestry Depot under the Canadian Forestry Corps raised July 17,1917 that was used to reinforce Canadian units. I also found reference to the 6th DLI and the 8 CEF units being merged briefly after some battles in Ypres. At least in the Canadian units the were troops sent from front line units to the Forestry Corp for recovery and vice versa the Forestry Corp gleaned for fit men especially in 1918. Thanks that was interesting to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spree Farm Posted 14 February Author Share Posted 14 February 23 hours ago, corisande said: There are two separate hospital entries below It is clear (to me anyway) that this refers to "6 Wood Cutting Corp" and not a reference to a Company, I have no idea what "SB" is - the hospital used "SB" for some other men. Perhaps "Service Batn" He is attached to "6 Woodcutting Corp". and is nothing to do with Robson's D Coy There are a number of Canadians on the same page, but none that I can see with Wood Cutting against their name One would have to go through the whole book to establish any other woodcutters This entry in Fmp And this one Hi I have waded through the whole book and the are no other references to wood cutters. I did however manage to find to 33 members of the 10th Bn, which is most useful. Sent an email to IWM to see if the could shed any light on the matter, but I won't hold my breath, if they do come back with information I will share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 14 February Share Posted 14 February I have found what might be an alternative name for this man's "unit". The war diary of the Deputy Director of Forestry does not exist for the period in question, but begins again in July 1916. He refers to numbered camps ... for example on 4 September 1916 he refers to visit to a site for Number 6 Camp. His visit was somewhere near Saint-Saëns. This is a long way from Saint-Omer so it is not where our man was when taken ill, but I wondered ... could the writing actually say 6th Wood Cutting Camp? Makes a lot more sense than corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 14 February Share Posted 14 February 12 minutes ago, Chris_Baker said: could the writing actually say 6th Wood Cutting Camp? Makes a lot more sense than corps. I think that is probably the explanation. Certainly the second letter could be an "a", but it is more difficult to read "m" as the third letter As you say it makes a lot more sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spree Farm Posted 14 February Author Share Posted 14 February 27 minutes ago, corisande said: I think that is probably the explanation. Certainly the second letter could be an "a", but it is more difficult to read "m" as the third letter As you say it makes a lot more sense I like that idea as I thought it read Comp as in company. The other aspect I am looking at which is a little bit dark given some of the posts and points raised. Why would a young man in his early 20s be sent from a forward Bn to a unit one would assume to be well behind the lines? Ilness maybe, or under performing! One would assume that they would have sent the older men first to perform such duties? We know that he was with the 10th as late as 31 Dec 1915 and presented from a wood cutter unit with myaligia less than 2 months later spending time in hospital until well enough to be sent back to the same unit. If he was well enough, one would have to question why did he not go back to front line duties rather than a rear unit? Why, if in such a rear position did he manage to get a gun shot wound to the head? Just some thoughts. Too much reading of hospital notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 14 February Share Posted 14 February On 13/02/2024 at 02:13, Spree Farm said: I have hard copies of all the DLI diaries as I have found the digital ones do not contain all the information in the originals. For example the is a list of every member of the 10th Bn serving on 31 Dec 1915 which does not appear in the online copy. Robson appears as being in "D" Company It is in the online copy. Robson appears on page 92 of the PDF of WO95/1907/1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spree Farm Posted 16 February Author Share Posted 16 February On 15/02/2024 at 03:03, Chris_Baker said: It is in the online copy. Robson appears on page 92 of the PDF of WO95/1907/1. That weird as I have just had a look at both the hard copy and then the electronic version I have and the list of name does not appear at all. Yet the link you sent me does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foresterab Posted 16 February Share Posted 16 February I was going through the war diary of the No.1 Company - Canadian Forestry Corps and found the following references: - when first deployed to France (October 1915) they operated in the Rouen area and in the Foret de la Londe Rouvray. They were assisted by ASC Labour Company of 1 Officer and 106 other ranks who were unskilled in forestry and had a RE Labour unit of 250 men assisting. This is in addition to 7-800 French civilians. - September 1916 they moved to St. Evroult Forest (now known as No. 1 Forest Company) and were initially assisted by French civilians but in May 1917 received a detachment of 200 men from the Scottish Rifles for loading and mill work. - by September 1917 they were in the Foret of crecy They also make reference to operating separate from the Canadian Forestry Corps There are records for a No.6 Company of the Canadian Forestry Corps (https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/home/record?app=fonandcol&IdNumber=5370883&q=canadian forestry corp) but records are not online. There was also a No.6 Company in ww2 in scotland just to mess searches up. What all this tells me is that the Forestry Companies were receiving, via the RE labour drafts to assist and/or units were providing drafts of men when French civilians were not available. More searching would be needed but I'm on the wrong side of the country to access the national archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 16 February Share Posted 16 February None of which would explain how he came to be admitted to hospital in Saint-Omer, through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foresterab Posted 16 February Share Posted 16 February https://rech On 13/02/2024 at 02:03, corisande said: The OP needs to go though Robson's service record to see where he was when. There is certainly a lot of detail available Unit: 10th Durham Light Infantry - 43rd Brigade - 14th (Light) Division 6th Durham Light Infantry - 151st Brigade - 50th (Northumbrian) Division Dates to reference: May 21 1915 10th DLI arrive in France and go the Ypres Sector Unit left the Ypres Salient on February 14, 1916 having suffered 36 officer and 718 other ranks killed, wounded sick or missing. April 19 1915 - 6th DLI arrive in France and go to the Ypres Sector, Armentieres, and Kemmel until August 1916. (https://www.durhamatwar.org.uk/story/12537/) The Commonwealth Graves Commission lists 8 members of the 10th DLI killed on February 12, 1916 including the Sgt. Major of the unit and are recorded on the Menin Gate Memorial. Another report from an officer I found referenced as series of attacks and counter attacks with trenches being cold, wet and in bad disrepair. February 13 1916 he enters 10 Stationary Hospital in St. Omer, France February 28, 1916 still at 10 Stationary Hospital in St. Omer, France February 29, 1916 transferred to 18 General Hospital at Camiers, France March 16, 1916 transferred to 6 Covelencent Depot in Etaple, France March 24, 1916 transferred to 4 Hospital? listed as Etaple, France. This does not make sense as #4 Stationary Hospital was St. Omer then and #4 General hospital was Camiers, France. April 2, 1916 returned to unit July 15, 1916 Gunshot wound to Head I find no records of members of the 10th DLI being killed this date via the Commonwealth Graves Commission. There are however 3 members of the 6th DLI killed on July 14th, 1916 and buried at Ridgewood Military Cemetery in Belgium (located SW of Ypres) July 15, 1916 transferred to 43 FC? unclear on this line but might be the 43rd Field Ambulance attached to the 14th Division July 28, 1916 admitted to Field? August 13, 1916 to Base? August 14, 1916 to 6 General Hospital in Rouen France. February 19, 1917 transferred to Richmond Royal Hospital, Richmond, England? April 6, 1917 discharged from Army as no longer fit for service. Unit log is here for the time period if you have access to NA in England: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017570 Also a local write up on him here: https://www.durhamatwar.org.uk/story/14981/ No records encountered to date of labour details for his unit (10th DLI or 6th DLI) and lumbering tasks. Most forestry units appear to be much further SW of the front lines around Rouen at the time of this soldier injuries based upon my limited knowledge of France (thank you Google maps). At this point I'm guessing a person would need unit specific logs to figure out more details as to what was going on and/or detachments sent to assist other units. foresterab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spree Farm Posted 17 February Author Share Posted 17 February 9 hours ago, Foresterab said: https://rech Unit: 10th Durham Light Infantry - 43rd Brigade - 14th (Light) Division 6th Durham Light Infantry - 151st Brigade - 50th (Northumbrian) Division Dates to reference: May 21 1915 10th DLI arrive in France and go the Ypres Sector Unit left the Ypres Salient on February 14, 1916 having suffered 36 officer and 718 other ranks killed, wounded sick or missing. April 19 1915 - 6th DLI arrive in France and go to the Ypres Sector, Armentieres, and Kemmel until August 1916. (https://www.durhamatwar.org.uk/story/12537/) The Commonwealth Graves Commission lists 8 members of the 10th DLI killed on February 12, 1916 including the Sgt. Major of the unit and are recorded on the Menin Gate Memorial. Another report from an officer I found referenced as series of attacks and counter attacks with trenches being cold, wet and in bad disrepair. February 13 1916 he enters 10 Stationary Hospital in St. Omer, France February 28, 1916 still at 10 Stationary Hospital in St. Omer, France February 29, 1916 transferred to 18 General Hospital at Camiers, France March 16, 1916 transferred to 6 Covelencent Depot in Etaple, France March 24, 1916 transferred to 4 Hospital? listed as Etaple, France. This does not make sense as #4 Stationary Hospital was St. Omer then and #4 General hospital was Camiers, France. April 2, 1916 returned to unit July 15, 1916 Gunshot wound to Head I find no records of members of the 10th DLI being killed this date via the Commonwealth Graves Commission. There are however 3 members of the 6th DLI killed on July 14th, 1916 and buried at Ridgewood Military Cemetery in Belgium (located SW of Ypres) July 15, 1916 transferred to 43 FC? unclear on this line but might be the 43rd Field Ambulance attached to the 14th Division July 28, 1916 admitted to Field? August 13, 1916 to Base? August 14, 1916 to 6 General Hospital in Rouen France. February 19, 1917 transferred to Richmond Royal Hospital, Richmond, England? April 6, 1917 discharged from Army as no longer fit for service. Unit log is here for the time period if you have access to NA in England: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017570 Also a local write up on him here: https://www.durhamatwar.org.uk/story/14981/ No records encountered to date of labour details for his unit (10th DLI or 6th DLI) and lumbering tasks. Most forestry units appear to be much further SW of the front lines around Rouen at the time of this soldier injuries based upon my limited knowledge of France (thank you Google maps). At this point I'm guessing a person would need unit specific logs to figure out more details as to what was going on and/or detachments sent to assist other units. foresterab 22 hours ago, Foresterab said: I was going through the war diary of the No.1 Company - Canadian Forestry Corps and found the following references: - when first deployed to France (October 1915) they operated in the Rouen area and in the Foret de la Londe Rouvray. They were assisted by ASC Labour Company of 1 Officer and 106 other ranks who were unskilled in forestry and had a RE Labour unit of 250 men assisting. This is in addition to 7-800 French civilians. - September 1916 they moved to St. Evroult Forest (now known as No. 1 Forest Company) and were initially assisted by French civilians but in May 1917 received a detachment of 200 men from the Scottish Rifles for loading and mill work. - by September 1917 they were in the Foret of crecy They also make reference to operating separate from the Canadian Forestry Corps There are records for a No.6 Company of the Canadian Forestry Corps (https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/home/record?app=fonandcol&IdNumber=5370883&q=canadian forestry corp) but records are not online. There was also a No.6 Company in ww2 in scotland just to mess searches up. What all this tells me is that the Forestry Companies were receiving, via the RE labour drafts to assist and/or units were providing drafts of men when French civilians were not available. More searching would be needed but I'm on the wrong side of the country to access the national archives. Interestingly my electronic diaries copies have not go anything for July 1916 but in the hard copy has a sentence for the 14 July. "There were no further casualties except for a a private badly wounded on a wiring party" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spree Farm Posted 17 February Author Share Posted 17 February 10 hours ago, Foresterab said: https://rech Unit: 10th Durham Light Infantry - 43rd Brigade - 14th (Light) Division 6th Durham Light Infantry - 151st Brigade - 50th (Northumbrian) Division Dates to reference: May 21 1915 10th DLI arrive in France and go the Ypres Sector Unit left the Ypres Salient on February 14, 1916 having suffered 36 officer and 718 other ranks killed, wounded sick or missing. April 19 1915 - 6th DLI arrive in France and go to the Ypres Sector, Armentieres, and Kemmel until August 1916. (https://www.durhamatwar.org.uk/story/12537/) The Commonwealth Graves Commission lists 8 members of the 10th DLI killed on February 12, 1916 including the Sgt. Major of the unit and are recorded on the Menin Gate Memorial. Another report from an officer I found referenced as series of attacks and counter attacks with trenches being cold, wet and in bad disrepair. February 13 1916 he enters 10 Stationary Hospital in St. Omer, France February 28, 1916 still at 10 Stationary Hospital in St. Omer, France February 29, 1916 transferred to 18 General Hospital at Camiers, France March 16, 1916 transferred to 6 Covelencent Depot in Etaple, France March 24, 1916 transferred to 4 Hospital? listed as Etaple, France. This does not make sense as #4 Stationary Hospital was St. Omer then and #4 General hospital was Camiers, France. April 2, 1916 returned to unit July 15, 1916 Gunshot wound to Head I find no records of members of the 10th DLI being killed this date via the Commonwealth Graves Commission. There are however 3 members of the 6th DLI killed on July 14th, 1916 and buried at Ridgewood Military Cemetery in Belgium (located SW of Ypres) July 15, 1916 transferred to 43 FC? unclear on this line but might be the 43rd Field Ambulance attached to the 14th Division July 28, 1916 admitted to Field? August 13, 1916 to Base? August 14, 1916 to 6 General Hospital in Rouen France. February 19, 1917 transferred to Richmond Royal Hospital, Richmond, England? April 6, 1917 discharged from Army as no longer fit for service. Unit log is here for the time period if you have access to NA in England: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017570 Also a local write up on him here: https://www.durhamatwar.org.uk/story/14981/ No records encountered to date of labour details for his unit (10th DLI or 6th DLI) and lumbering tasks. Most forestry units appear to be much further SW of the front lines around Rouen at the time of this soldier injuries based upon my limited knowledge of France (thank you Google maps). At this point I'm guessing a person would need unit specific logs to figure out more details as to what was going on and/or detachments sent to assist other units. foresterab "July 15, 1916 transferred to 43 FC? unclear on this line but might be the 43rd Field Ambulance attached to the 14th Division" I read this line as 15 July 44 FA to Sp?c 34 Fd 43 FA, looks as though he was taken to the nearest FA unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foresterab Posted 17 February Share Posted 17 February 17 hours ago, Spree Farm said: Interestingly my electronic diaries copies have not go anything for July 1916 but in the hard copy has a sentence for the 14 July. "There were no further casualties except for a a private badly wounded on a wiring party" This explains more to me how he might have been injured. I know from personal experience packing shotguns for work it doesn't take much at times to have a weapon load itself when working/brushing up against things/snagging on your gun. Thankfully there was no discharge but I have friends who have had them while hunting with bolt action rifles due to safety's being knocked off. The lack of unit casualties had me previously thinking it was either sniper action as part of the daily "wastage" or self inflicted but not having the unit diary makes a person guess vs. more detailed reality. I'm still not sure about the February injury that put him into hospital in St. Omer but the unit as a whole appears to have been badly beaten up in their first 6 months in the trenches with many men referenced as ill so guessing it was tied to trench conditions. Again a guess only. The reference to the wood cutting detail is too clear in the records not to examine but I'm not sure where else to look into things to track it down. Could not find a RE unit reference to match on google searches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spree Farm Posted 18 February Author Share Posted 18 February I was suspecting a similar fate such as self inflicted but still none the wiser to the initial question; No 6 Woodcutter Camp. I will keep looking. Off the track a little, the next page of the diary has a very interesting little sketch at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foresterab Posted 18 February Share Posted 18 February Sketch sort of makes sense as these were some of the units who faced the first German use on July 30 1915. Even the german name is used for the flamethrowers is used. I'm not sure if its' a venting system or shelter to protect against them (I think the later) but a neat and rare sketch in the war record. Foresterab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynsey Posted 25 February Share Posted 25 February (edited) Hello, I’m new here. Joseph William Robson is my great great uncle - he was the brother of my grandmother’s father. I am reading this thread with interest as I want to learn about what he was doing during his time in France and what happened for him to have sustained his GSW to the head. I have visited his grave in Stanley New Cemetary, Co Durham, where he was buried with his sister who died 2 weeks before him of diphtheria. I haven’t had time to read all the comments yet, but I have found that he he was suffering myalgia when he first embarked and spent some time in hospital. I know very little about battalions and their roles, but I want to learn as much as I can to understand his story. Thank you all for researching him - until I started my Ancestry account in 2021, no-one in my family knew anything about him. I find that tragic, so to know people are researching him and remembering him in some way is lovely. can anyone help me find out if a photo would exist of him? Was it common practice their portrait would be taken by the army? I would love a photograph of him. thank you. Edited 25 February by Lynsey Spelling mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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