Ottoman Engineers multi-tool side arm

[M1890 ottoman]

Greetings lads we are here to shed light on a new topic. I wish it to be an extension of the Ottoman bayonets series started back in 2011 by the contributions of SS ,Trajan and others.

Here is what's known to be the Ottoman engineers or artillery side arm. I assume they were built  İMALAT-I HARBİYE by the marking ✡︎ا.ح  (ا alif A) (ح Kha H) located on the handguard. It could be translated as War Industry, most likely state owned. my example has an relatively rare bone grips. There is this conception that it belongs to a higher rank if it has the bone grips. Smaller that it looks they are at a handy length of only 32 cm. 

 

[M1890 ottoman]

Here are a few more pictures I have got. 

Best wishes ,Ahmet 

[shippingsteel]

Well done Ahmet, you have finally made your post.! It looks very interesting and the design well before it's time, I have never seen one before, so thank you for posting. 

Your photos are mostly dark, however I have taken the liberty of zooming in and correcting the brightness on some of the important markings, to help illustrate the discussion. See these shots added below.

So the easy one is the serial number stamped across the guard in the Arabic numerals. This says 4336, which shows there was a not insignificant number of these that were issued.

Then we have the other marking stamped on the reverse side which you believe to be a maker. This is something that I have seen before and I believe it is the Ottoman "ownership mark" which indicates it belongs to the Ottoman Army. I have done translation work on this marking previously so I will try to find that ... and then hopefully provide some more information. But basically the letters are abbreviations of the much longer underlying words.

Cheers,  SS

[shippingsteel]

Here is a link to another example currently on the web. Interesting snippets of information provided, but I have serious doubts whether these were EVER made in Turkey despite what Chris Flaherty might suggest.

https://www.henrysmilitarycollectables.com.au/products/weapons/ww1-turkish-engineers-knife.aspx

The vast bulk of military equipment sourced by the Ottomans during that period was coming out of Germany. As I mentioned previously the inscription is an Ownership mark NOT a makers mark. But an easy mistake to make when you don't know the language.

Cheers,  SS 

(Link added for information purposes only ... no relationship to the Seller)

[shippingsteel]

It appears that I have seen these knives before, as I found photos that I saved of them on my very old computer.! This was way back when I was researching all the Ottoman markings on their military equipment (about a decade or so ago). So apparently they also come with the sawback blades, and what appears to be a makers inscription on the ricasso (one I have not yet translated - it looks tricky)

Cheers,  SS

[AndyBsk]

With this number i assume its a serial range so minimum 5xxx probably were made, the grips could be too a hardwood should be visible on the cheaped area or cut area. Very interesting piece for special branch, thanks for sharing.

[trajan]

These pop up from time to time at the Ankara Antikapazara, but I have never collected them as space is somewhat limited and my bayonet collection takes up so much room! Thy are nice, though, and sawback oness are certainly the exception to the normal type.

Julian

[M1890 ottoman]

That's most likely the case that its an Ownership mark. It could have been an misconception of an auction house(which I avoid due to their high bidding customer base) in Turkey which claimed that it was Imalatı-Harbiye. 

https://www.bayrakmuzayede.com/osmanli-donemi-nadir-formda-topcu-sungusu.html

There might be be a closer look at the mark located on the ricasso on the image that you have dug out of your old compute.

Using my minimal knowledge of ottoman (let me up on my glasses, not the reading ones). It says Ikinci otomobil bölüğü (second Automobile company)but cant be sure of the last word. The last word is most likely "Emlağı" the property of, Emlak means real state/property. Making it a property mark. It is less likely is that the word is "Imalatı" (manufacture) because the ا "elif" has a hat on (Hamza ء‎) on unlike the first one which neglects it and is lower. Making it an A rather than a I. 

[M1890 ottoman]

6 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

With this number i assume its a serial range so minimum 5xxx probably were made, the grips could be too a hardwood should be visible on the cheaped area or cut area. Very interesting piece for special branch, thanks for sharing.

Its a pleasure. Thanks to each one of you. It is indeed horn/bone due to its cracks, chipping and light reflection, including some dark areas glow like amber you direct light at it. 

There seem to be 3 types of grips. Thicker wood with rivets sticking out. A grounded down version seen above. And finally horn ones. https://www.ebay.com/itm/126121428151 .The sale of this example with cracked horn grips one on eBay has ended but the images might still be reachable.? 

It is the first time seen one with a Sawback maybe it could have been an after war fantasy. 

[AndyBsk]

On the ebay is as mentioned certainly a horn grips, which were probably not the best choice, mainly for the various recesses for tools, there is very low number and the rivets are steel,  the sawback could be normal as this is a specialist tool more as knife. But maybe Trajan known more. Is possible they changed from steel rivets to brass one as the horn grips dont like heavy hammering, the ebay has very low number 21 even under guard same stamped on blade? The wooden grips could be later replacements for the damaged horn grips.

Edited 11 February by AndyBsk

[shippingsteel]

Here is another photo of the sawback example, showing a better view of the inscription. It has such scribbled letters it makes it very difficult for me to translate. If I can see exactly what the underlying letters are, than it can be done. This has always been one that I have avoided and put in the too hard basket,! You can see on the crossguard the very low serial number 171 so perhaps there were some special variants made earlier on. However the thought did cross my mind at the time that it may have been "added" - especially when a lot of the stuff back then was coming out of Afghanistan.

Cheers,  SS

[M1890 ottoman]

Thanks SS, it is easily readable in this version. ایکینجی اوطوموبیل بلوکی اعمالاتی ikinci automobil bölüğü imalatı. It is somehow apparent that it is hand scribed due to the differences. 

It indeed says it was "produced by the second automobile (not sure if means mechanized) company ".

14 hours ago, shippingsteel said:

It has such scribbled letters it makes it very difficult for me to translate

Its not us handwriting used to be a problem 100years ago here is an example : "Bu kitabı yazanın elleri kırılsın hiç okunmuyor gözü kör olsun Allah Allah"

May the hands of the scribe break. (Seems like he stopped for a while) its unreadable , may his eyes go blind "Allah Allah"(means that he is shocked) 😂. 

Best wishes, Ahmet