dhubthaigh Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February Can anyone help with the identification of the two regiments from the following photographs please. I appreciate the detail on photo 2 is not very clear. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 10 February Admin Share Posted 10 February I’d say Royal Scots Greys for the top photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February Definitely Royal Scots Greys and the second one looks to be Army Service Corps but it's a bit blurred. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_C Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February RSG on the right in mourning. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February 3 minutes ago, Pete_C said: RSG on the right in mourning. Pete He also appears to be the same man as in the second photo. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) Given the difference in age between the two photos it looks to me like the ASC man was weeded out into the cavalry via compulsory transfer later in the war. Quite common as fitter men were effectively swopped in terms of numbers for ex wounded with lower medical gradings. Edited 10 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhubthaigh Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February These pictures were found in a collection of documents relating to a man I was researching - William Robertson, 6th Black Watch, Larchwood, Killiecrankie, Perthshire. Given the information provided I found the following pension card relating to his brother Thomas Robertson who I'm now quite sure is the man who appears in both photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhubthaigh Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February 11 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Given the difference in age between the two photos it looks to me like the ASC man was weeded out into the cavalry via compulsory transfer later in the war. The pension card I posted indicates Date of 'Transfer' - 01-04-1919. Is this is when he went to the Scots Greys? Although commencement of pension is 02-04-1919... Can you provide any context/explanation for this transfer. I cannot find any documentation noting Thomas in the Scots Greys. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) 20 minutes ago, dhubthaigh said: The pension card I posted indicates Date of 'Transfer' - 01-04-1919. Is this is when he went to the Scots Greys? Although commencement of pension is 02-04-1919... Can you provide any context/explanation for this transfer. I cannot find any documentation noting Thomas in the Scots Greys. Thanks If he transferred as late as 1919 it suggests he probably volunteered. By that year, with demobilisation well underway, the regular army was having to think through its manning needs post war with continued commitments in Russia, the North West Frontier of India, occupation forces in Germany and parts of the former Ottoman Empire, and of course the by then perennial needs of Ireland. As a former ASC man he’d have been familiar with mounted duties and regiments could no longer rely on the same scale of reinforcements as base depots began to be wound down. There were a number of types of short service engagements and extensions of service introduced to maximise the sources of new men to make up the numbers and my guess is that your man probably signed up for one of them. The badge is definitely the 2nd Dragoons (RSG) and it’s definitely the same man in both photos. The 2nd Dragoons were in 5th Cavalry Brigade as part of 2nd Cavalry Division. “The Division was selected to advance into Germany as an advance screen for Fourth Army and form part of the Occupation Force. The move began on 17 November 1918, Cinet and Rochefort were reached five days later and the 5th Cavalry Brigade crossed the German border south of St Vith on 1 December. The Division ceased to exist at midnight 31 March / 1 April 1919.” (LLT refers) Edited 10 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhubthaigh Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February 30 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: If he transferred as late as 1919 it suggests he probably volunteered. By that year, with demobilisation well underway, the regular army was having to think through its manning needs post war with continued commitments in Russia, the North West Frontier of India, occupation forces in Germany and parts of the former Ottoman Empire, and of course the by then perennial needs of Ireland. As a former ASC man he’d have been familiar with mounted duties and regiments could no longer rely on the same scale of reinforcements as base depots began to be wound down. There were a number of types of short service engagements and extensions of service introduced to maximise the sources of new men to make up the numbers and my guess is that your man probably signed up for one of them. The badge is definitely the 2nd Dragoons (RSG) and it’s definitely the same man in both photos. The 2nd Dragoons were in 5th Cavalry Brigade as part of 2nd Cavalry Division. “The Division was selected to advance into Germany as an advance screen for Fourth Army and form part of the Occupation Force. The move began on 17 November 1918, Cinet and Rochefort were reached five days later and the 5th Cavalry Brigade crossed the German border south of St Vith on 1 December. The Division ceased to exist at midnight 31 March / 1 April 1919.” (LLT refers) That's great, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 11 February Share Posted 11 February (edited) 21 hours ago, dhubthaigh said: The pension card I posted indicates Date of 'Transfer' - 01-04-1919. Is this is when he went to the Scots Greys? Although commencement of pension is 02-04-1919... Can you provide any context/explanation for this transfer. The transfer date, as noted on the pension card, is not from ASC to Royal Scots Greys but indicates the date he was Transferred to Class Z Army Reserve. There is a second pension card available that has a Z/ASC/64820 reference which is indicative of this transfer (same dates) and it’s also mentioned on his 1914/1915 Star roll entry… [Image sourced from NA ref. WO 329/2882 via Ancestry.co.uk] Edited 11 February by SteveE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhubthaigh Posted 11 February Author Share Posted 11 February 10 minutes ago, SteveE said: The transfer date, as noted on the pension card, is not from ASC to Royal Scots Greys but indicates the date he was Transferred to Class Z Army Reserve. There is a second pension card available that has a Z/ASC/64820 reference which is indicative of this transfer (same dates) and it’s also mentioned on his 1914/1915 Star roll entry… [Image sourced from NA ref. WO 329/2882 via Ancestry.co.uk] Thanks for that information, appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 11 February Share Posted 11 February 2 hours ago, dhubthaigh said: Thanks for that information, appreciated. Have you tracked down his medal index card and roll? The latter will often mention all the units with which he served overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhubthaigh Posted 11 February Author Share Posted 11 February 12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Have you tracked down his medal index card and roll? The latter will often mention all the units with which he served overseas. I have done . No mention of any other unit on them...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 11 February Share Posted 11 February Just now, dhubthaigh said: I have done . No mention of any other unit on them...... The regimental medal roll? I don’t mean the index card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhubthaigh Posted 11 February Author Share Posted 11 February 1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said: The regimental medal roll? I don’t mean the index card. I've looked at the MIC and the 1914/15 Star and BWM & V Roll.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 11 February Share Posted 11 February 1 minute ago, dhubthaigh said: I've looked at the MIC and the 1914/15 Star and BWM & V Roll.... Understood. I’d hoped it would mention the 2nd Dragoons against his entry on the roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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