davidbohl Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) This chap L/Cpl 241214 Joseph William Smith KLR has an MIC, no mention of his MM, and I can't find his Medal Roll on Ancestry to get his rank, battalion etc. London Gazette on the 14th Jan 1918 describes him as "I. V. Smith" From Ancestry The newspaper says he was a Staff Sergeant From the BNA. Edited 10 February by davidbohl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February David MM Card shows 1/6 Bn TNA/FMP WO 372 Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February 5 minutes ago, brianmorris547 said: MM Card shows 1/6 Bn Thanks Brian, i'd love to know where they got initials I.V. from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February Find My Past have a part service record for #241214. Joe Vernon Smith (born 1893) of the 6th Battalion, transferring to the Military Foot Police (can't see a date) but a notation on bottom of form says 'Temp. from Home Service' -- civil occupation shown as 'Varnish Maker' -- doesn't tie in with the newspaper article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February The military history sheet for Joe Vernon Smith (courtesy of Find My Past) shows that he was awarded (very faint but looks like an MM) for 'Gallantry and Devotion to Duty' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February This Smith was a Lance Corporal (image courtesy of Find My Past) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February Reference: WO 372/18/161046 Description: Medal card of Smith, J V Corps Regiment No Rank Liverpool Regiment 3228 Private Military Foot Police P/15357 Private Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February 1 minute ago, Keith_history_buff said: Reference: WO 372/18/161046 Description: Medal card of Smith, J V Corps Regiment No Rank Liverpool Regiment 3228 Private Military Foot Police P/15357 Private Doesn't tie in with the image above your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February There are four service records in the search results for service records for Joe Vernon Smith. The man above enlisted in the 6th KLR on 19 Jan 1915, 3228. Given that he is in the TF, it would make sense to be renumbered as 241214 in 1917. That said, his WFA card has the old four digit number and MFP regimental number, and not the six digit number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February 1 minute ago, Keith_history_buff said: The man above enlisted in the 6th KLR on 19 Jan 1915, 3228. Given that he is in the TF, it would make sense to be renumbered as 241214 in 1917. It 'dawned' on me a couple of minutes ago that 322 would have been his TF number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February Medal roll courtesy Ancestry, WO 329/2132 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February Service record states that he transferred to the MFP on 16 May 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February The image of the LG entry for the MM in 1918 doesn't tie in to the medal card or newspaper article which is dated 1916. The newspaper article relates to a Sergeant J W Smith, #253 of the 1/6th Battalion -- he was gazetted 11/11/16 (image courtesy of the NA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February 1914/15 Star Medal Rolls for J W Smith #253 (image courtesy of Ancestry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February Excellent, so the 1916 recipient has now been identified too, Joseph W Smith. He was in receipt of a LSGC medal in 1912 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February BWM & VM Medal Rolls entry for J W Smith, shows his new number of 240036 (image courtesy of Ancestry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February LG entry for #253 (courtesy of Find My Past) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February Hooray, well done Allan and Keith, I was beginning to doubt my J.W. hadn't in fact won the MM, still no mention of it on his mic. From Anc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February 2 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said: Excellent, so the 1916 recipient has now been identified too, Joseph W Smith. He was in receipt of a LSGC medal in 1912 too. Not if he was a Territorial. Unless you mean a Territorial Force Efficiency Medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) Neither of these men's MM record appears in the Jeudwine's 55th Division papers held at Museum of Liverpool Life. Edited 10 February by Ken Lees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February Yes, agreed, incorrect terminology on my part. Full Name Smith, J W Rank Name Corporal Service number 253 Authority A.O. 107 Authority Date 01 April 1912 Service British Army Primary Unit King's (Liverpool Regiment) Secondary Unit 6th Battalion Archive Reference WO 102/30 Secondary source: UK, Long Service Good Conduct Medal, 1830-1979 Copyright © 2024 Fold3® by Ancestry Reference: WO 102/30 Description: Territorial Force Efficiency Medal: awards (photocopies of lists issued with Army Orders) Date: 1908 Jan 01 - 1918 Dec 31 This primary source document is at The National Archives UK, Kew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February Would this be 8+ years service with the Volunteers, then 4 years with the TF? https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2020/05/kings-liverpool-regiment-6th-rifle.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February 2 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said: Would this be 8+ years service with the Volunteers, then 4 years with the TF? https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2020/05/kings-liverpool-regiment-6th-rifle.html Yes, I believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February The December 1916 WD of 55 Div A&QMG, WO 95/2909, Routine Order dated 10/12/1916 names all those in the Division who had received Honours from when the Division was formed in January. I have recently downloaded the page showing 2/5 Lancs Fusiliers and on the next page is 1/6 Liverpool Regt. This RO names 253 Sgt Swith, J W - MM. Routine Order dated 24/10/1917 names 241214 L/Cpl Smith, J V - MM. TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2909 Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debcam Posted 13 April Share Posted 13 April Hi. I have discovered this thread. It includes reference to my husband’s grandfather Joe Vernon Smith. We recently inherited a LOT of info and ephemera that was passed down via his daughter, my mum in law. I’ve blogged extensively about him, a lot of which concerns his service in the war and his MM. if you are interested this is the link. We have medals, sketches, silks, photos, cap badges and his story from cradle to grave! I have just joined the forum. I can’t seem to add the link but if interested I would happily email you or if not I would be happy to post an bit more info I am not sure if photos or links are allowed Debbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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