RFT Posted 9 February Share Posted 9 February I'm trying to locate a photo, or drawing, of a Russian Volunteer Army Badge (South Russia) dating to 1919/20. Can anyone oblige? Thanks in advance Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 February Share Posted 9 February 1 hour ago, RFT said: I'm trying to locate a photo, or drawing, of a Russian Volunteer Army Badge (South Russia) dating to 1919/20. Can anyone oblige? Thanks in advance Rob Can you describe the badge? This a RUSSIAN WHITE ARMY ENAMEL BADGE - MARCH 13 1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 9 February Author Share Posted 9 February Thank you for responding. I'm sorry but cannot provide a description. According to a 1920 newspaper description, a British RAF officer, who served in South Russia (1919) was wearing a "Russian Army Volunteer Badge." Intrigued by this description, I've been conducting an online search to locate same, to no avail. I'm aware of several Russian books covering badges but these are seemingly not available in English! Can you provide me with information on the above badge? Regards Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 February Share Posted 9 February 1 minute ago, RFT said: Thank you for responding. I'm sorry but cannot provide a description. According to a 1920 newspaper description, a British RAF officer, who served in South Russia (1919) was wearing a "Russian Army Volunteer Badge." Intrigued by this description, I've been conducting an online search to locate same, to no avail. I'm aware of several Russian books covering badges but these are seemingly not available in English! Can you provide me with information on the above badge? Regards Rob No I’m sorry that I cannot give context to the white enamel badge other than that it was apparently worn as insignia by elements of White Russian forces, almost certainly officers given the quality. Like you I am in the dark with regards to the badge allegedly worn by the British officer. Forum members @Mikhail and @MaureenE are sometimes able to help with matters pertaining to the Russian Civil War of 1919, so I don’t know if they can perhaps shine light on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 9 February Author Share Posted 9 February Thanks for responding - Hopefully @Mikhail or @MaureenE will reply to this topic ,if not, I'll make contact with them. Best regards Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 February Share Posted 9 February (edited) 28 minutes ago, RFT said: Thanks for responding - Hopefully @Mikhail or @MaureenE will reply to this topic ,if not, I'll make contact with them. Best regards Rob Might the badge be this one comprising chevrons in Russia’s colours? It seems like it was worn on the left arm. Edited 9 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Posted 9 February Share Posted 9 February 16 minutes ago, RFT said: Thanks for responding - Hopefully @Mikhail or @MaureenE will reply to this topic ,if not, I'll make contact with them. Best regards Rob Hello! Maybe do you speak about this? On January 10, 1918, a sleeve chevron was installed for all servicemen enrolled in the Volunteer Army by Kornilov's order. The colors were set to white-blue-red. That is, each volunteer on his form had a particle of the national flag and was considered a defender of national interests. The chevron should have been worn on the right sleeve of the uniform or overcoat 4.5 centimeters above the elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 February Share Posted 9 February 1 minute ago, Mikhail said: Hello! Maybe do you speak about this? On January 10, 1918, a sleeve chevron was installed for all servicemen enrolled in the Volunteer Army by Kornilov's order. The colors were set to white-blue-red. That is, each volunteer on his form had a particle of the national flag and was considered a defender of national interests. The chevron should have been worn on the right sleeve of the uniform or overcoat 4.5 centimeters above the elbow. Thank you for responding Mikhail, it is much appreciated. The origin of the unifying chevrons makes clear sense. The “right” sleeve seems a misinterpretation as all the images, including the contemporary water colour painting at top above shows the left sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Posted 9 February Share Posted 9 February 1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said: Thank you for responding Mikhail, it is much appreciated. The origin of the unifying chevrons makes clear sense. The “right” sleeve seems a misinterpretation as all the images, including the contemporary water colour painting at top above shows the left sleeve. Yes I think lift sleeve is correct, you are right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 February Share Posted 9 February 12 minutes ago, Mikhail said: Yes I think lift sleeve is correct, you are right! It is good of you to reply and I’m sure that @RFT will be pleased to get his answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 9 February Author Share Posted 9 February 50 minutes ago, Mikhail said: Hello! Maybe do you speak about this? On January 10, 1918, a sleeve chevron was installed for all servicemen enrolled in the Volunteer Army by Kornilov's order. The colors were set to white-blue-red. That is, each volunteer on his form had a particle of the national flag and was considered a defender of national interests. The chevron should have been worn on the right sleeve of the uniform or overcoat 4.5 centimeters above the elbow. Thank you for posting a response to my request for information. I don't have any information at all as to the appearance or the type of badge worn. The newspaper description merely states the RAF officer (who served with 47 squadron, South Russia in 1919 (under Denikin)) was wearing a "Russian Army Volunteer Badge." Perhaps the badge featured in your image was indeed the badge worn by the officer in question. Any supplemental information you may come across would be most welcome. Best regards Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 February Share Posted 9 February (edited) 15 minutes ago, RFT said: Thank you for posting a response to my request for information. I don't have any information at all as to the appearance or the type of badge worn. The newspaper description merely states the RAF officer (who served with 47 squadron, South Russia in 1919 (under Denikin)) was wearing a "Russian Army Volunteer Badge." Perhaps the badge featured in your image was indeed the badge worn by the officer in question. Any supplemental information you may come across would be most welcome. Best regards Rob It does make sense for it to have been the chevrons Rob, as they were ordered as the unifying feature for all units and would have clearly identified the British officer’s loyalties to all Russians who saw him. The lowermost image of a surviving jacket shows how they looked and in particular that the ends were not cut vertically but obliquely like those in the large opening image above. Edited 9 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 9 February Author Share Posted 9 February (edited) 1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said: It does make sense for it to have been the chevrons Rob, as they were ordered as the unifying feature for all units and would have clearly identified the British officer’s loyalties to all Russians who saw him. The lowermost image of a surviving jacket shows how they looked and in particular that the ends were not cut vertically but obliquely like those in the large opening image above. I concur. Furthermore, and using Mikhail's photos as a reference, the badge was likely worn by all officers and ranks. In my possession is a large and framed photo of "C" Flight, 47 Squadron dating to Sept 1919 and no-one is wearing anything other than unifroms, badges & caps of the RAF, RFC & RNAS., which of course is to be expected as this pre-dates the 1 Oct 1919 switch to the squadron being redesignated "A" Squadron, White Russian Army. The fact that the Russian Army Volunteer badge was white/blue/red gives evidence to the theory that "A" Squadron's own device (put forward by then Sec of State for War, Winston Churchill) was indeed in the same colours, and not the yellow/blue/red in use by 47 Sqn since that time (until it was disbanded last year). I anticipate covering "A" Squadron's device in a future topic with supporting information supplied by a former Wing-Commander, who was indeed Officer Commanding 47 Squadron. In the meantime, I must seek out this Russian badge (even a good remanufactured one). Thanks for your interest and input. Rob Edited 9 February by RFT Updated text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 February Share Posted 9 February (edited) 1 hour ago, RFT said: I concur. Furthermore, and using Mikhail's photos as a reference, the badge was likely worn by all officers and ranks. In my possession is a large and framed photo of "C" Flight, 47 Squadron dating to Sept 1919 and no-one is wearing anything other than unifroms, badges & caps of the RAF, RFC & RNAS., which of course is to be expected as this pre-dates the 1 Oct 1919 switch to the squadron being redesignated "A" Squadron, White Russian Army. The fact that the Russian Army Volunteer badge was white/blue/red gives evidence to the theory that "A" Squadron's own device (put forward by then Sec of State for War, Winston Churchill) was indeed in the same colours, and not the yellow/blue/red in use by 47 Sqn since that time (until it was disbanded last year). I anticipate covering "A" Squadron's device in a future topic with supporting information supplied by a former Wing-Commander, who was indeed Officer Commanding 47 Squadron. In the meantime, I must seek out this Russian badge (even a good remanufactured one). Thanks for your interest and input. Rob I’m very pleased to help Rob. It was me who found the images above via various searches online, but Mikhail found the orders that led to the creation of the chevron insignia. Good luck with your continuing research in connection with No 47 Squadron RAF. Edited 9 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 9 February Author Share Posted 9 February 54 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: I’m very pleased to help Rob. It was me who found the images above via various searches online, but Mikhael found the orders that led to the creation of the chevron insignia. Good luck with your continuing research in connection with No 47 Squadron RAF. My apologies, I should have acknowledged your earlier response. Your input to my topics is always appreciated. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February @RFTSorry I can't offer any information about your original query. However, for general information the following are available online Over the Balkans and South Russia being the History of No. 47 Squadron Royal Air Force by H.A. Jones 1923. Archive.org. “With the RAF in South Russia” by Lieut. K Warner-Jones RAF page 276 The Wide World Magazine. Adventure - Travel - Sport. Volume 45 1920 May-October. Archive.org Last Train over Rostov Bridge by Captain Marion Aten and Arthur Orrmont 1961 Archive.org Texts to Borrow. Marion Aten was an American who flew in No. 47 Squadron, RAF. A review (librarything.com) has doubts about the veracity of some of the stories, which were probably added to make the book more saleable to the general public, and elsewhere it is considered to be a a vivid though chronologically unreliable account. Sample pages only Gone to Russia to Fight: The RAF in South Russia 1918-1920 by John T. Smith 2010 https://books.google.com.au/books?id=XUyoAwAAQBAJ Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFT Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February Thanks MaureenE - I've never come across that account by Warner-Jones. Excellent it is too. Books by H A Jones, John Smith and Marion Aten are among my collection (latter being a pre-publication copy). Thank you for your interest in this topic. Best regards Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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